The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[holtelower]

I felty weird coming away from Villa Park yesterday, we lost, we lost a local derby - I should have been gutted, annoyed etc...

But, whether you call it dillusional, claret and blue specced or what-ever. I felt quite happy.

1. For the first time since the Cup Semi , I enjoyed watching the Villa. I've said many times over the past year, I just dont get the same buzz I used to get. Well yesterday, I did. Until the fight went out of us after about 75 mins, I was actually enoying what I saw. I thought it was exciting.

2. I dont give a toss what anyone says, the sending off totally changed the match completely. Up until that point I actually said to the guy behind me "this is the best I've seen us look in years". I could see that, given his own personnel, the way McLeish will like to play, and I liked it.

3. From above, McLeish's team. I can see what he is doing. At the start, he flitting Bannan in to the odd game, then , when he was used to it, he is now first choice. The same is happening with Herd - I predict, the next one will be Clark.

4. There were huge negatives aswell - the defending is bloody woeful. But the defence bar Hutton (which I will come to in a minute) is the same defence that shipped 7 at Chelsea, 6 at Newcastle etc... This defence is crap - simple, McLeish knows it, and I expect him to reshape it.

Hutton - he looks awful, but is it him. I watched time and time again yesterday, Albion try and attack Warnock, answer, the couldn't, coz when they did, they had Gabby tracking back, doubling up, there was ALWAYS Gabby between Warnock and the opposing player.

The other side, Hutton was 2-1 and sometimes 3-1 on vitually every occasion whilst NZogbia was holding his waste on the half way line. THAT was the problem with Hutton. So, although awful I reserve judgement until he gets a player in front of him that will give him support.

5. NZogbia , I was wrong, I said at the time, hed prove better than Downing. How wrong I was, he is CRAP !!!! - and I cant see him getting any better. This isnt about settling, this is the same as ireland, the guy is a waster !.

Anyway - we lost, but I can see very promising signs. I hope McLeish does the following. Get us safe 9which we will be, there is not a hell of us going down. Wigan, Blackburn. Norwich, Swansea (no matter how they play now, same as Hull and Blackpool) will all be below us no matter how crap we are. So get us safe, then just rip the team up, bring in Bannan, Clark, Herd, Lichaj, Albrighton, Fonz , delph - keep in Bent, Gabby, Given, Hutton etc... ship out Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Heskey, Petrov and co.

Give them 8-10 games (whenever we get safe) and although we will lose more than we win, we will see which kids will make it, which aren't, then go and reshape next July for the future.

I saw hope in defeat yesterday - so weirdly, I'm quite happy.

[Dodgyknees]

Difference being they have actually made a fist of it, had shots and attempts and are also playing a team with much better quality.

[Zatman]

Difference being they have actually made a fist of it, had shots and attempts and are also playing a team with much better quality.

but they conceded 6

[Dodgyknees]

Difference being they have actually made a fist of it, had shots and attempts and are also playing a team with much better quality.

but they conceded 6

Dzeko, Aguero, Silva, Balotelli, Nasri.

We'd have lost by 10 yesterday if West Brom had those.

[blandy]

There's a fair bit in that holtelower, that I agree with.

I wasn't happy, though. I don't actually care that much any more. The results don't really affect my mood either way.

But before the sending off, it was an even game, with both sides looking likely to score and likely to concede - an entertaining spell of play.

Dowd and his lino ruined that.

Agree completely re the younger players and the defence. Given is a really good keeper, but none of the back 4 inspire confidence, for me. Hutton has not played a good game, Warnock is up and down, Dunne is mostly solid, but error prone, and Collins is rocky.

N'Zogbia has just done zilch, he's been a passenger in all the games.

10 v 11 where all 10 are "at it" is manageable, 10 v 11 with passengers ends up being like what we saw.

The problem is the lack of depth. Given, Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Clark, Lihaj, Herd, Albrighton (who's off form), Bannan, Delph, Stan, Bent, Fonz, Weimann and Gabby are fine in my book, in terms of fighting for places. But the likes of Heskey, N'Zogbia, Hutton, Ireland, are just expensive wastes space.

And of the ones I'm OK with, many are kids, who shouldn't play every game, they need to be managed in terms of slotting in and out. There's just a major lack of quality in depth, and that will tell, whatever the manager does or doesn't do.

[Keyblade]

Difference being they have actually made a fist of it, had shots and attempts and are also playing a team with much better quality.

They only gave it ago for a spell of about 5 minutes after the sending off. They were poor afterwards. We had a similar spell half-way through the second half ourselves, which similarly came to nothing.

[holtelower]

Short term, it will tell, no doubt. But we will reap the benefits long term.

Villa need stability. We need long term planning big style. We are in 2011. Since 2000 - 11 yrs, we have had Gregory, Talylor, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houiller and McLeish as managers.

6 managers in 11 yrs. All coming in, buying loads of expensive players - all of them, from JPA - Bent - millions upon millions spent of players that, in 2 yrs time, another guy will come in, doesn't fancy them, and then ships them out on huge losses. Has that worked ?.

Since I was a Villa fan, we have always been, bar a couple of blips, a top 6 side. Throughout this period there was continuity. Just look at the back line for examples. McGrath, Mounfield, Neilson, turned into McGrath, Teale, which turned into Ugo, McGrath, Southgate, which turned into Southgate, Barry Ugo, which turned into Barry Mellberg, Alpay, which turned into Melberg , laursen............... - where it stopped.

Suddenly, at this point, we ripped up the team, and started again , started spending millions on "today not tomorrow" players - where has it got us.

Its time to go back to doing what Villa do best - and that is building a club.

It will take time - and unfortunately, supporters nowadays wont give that.

[Mantis]

Short term, it will tell, no doubt. But we will reap the benefits long term.

Villa need stability. We need long term planning big style. We are in 2011. Since 2000 - 11 yrs, we have had Gregory, Talylor, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houiller and McLeish as managers.

6 managers in 11 yrs. All coming in, buying loads of expensive players - all of them, from JPA - Bent - millions upon millions spent of players that, in 2 yrs time, another guy will come in, doesn't fancy them, and then ships them out on huge losses. Has that worked ?.

Since I was a Villa fan, we have always been, bar a couple of blips, a top 6 side. Throughout this period there was continuity. Just look at the back line for examples. McGrath, Mounfield, Neilson, turned into McGrath, Teale, which turned into Ugo, McGrath, Southgate, which turned into Southgate, Barry Ugo, which turned into Barry Mellberg, Alpay, which turned into Melberg , laursen............... - where it stopped.

Suddenly, at this point, we ripped up the team, and started again , started spending millions on "today not tomorrow" players - where has it got us.

Its time to go back to doing what Villa do best - and that is building a club.

It will take time - and unfortunately, supporters nowadays wont give that.

I agree with you in principle, but McLeish isn't the man to build us up.

[BrummieVillan]

His substitutions are getting weirder and weirder. And I noticed the long ball tactic came out once we'd gone to 10. But as I've said before he'll have until February in my books and atm I'm backing him to make for a more positive atmosphere.

[smetrov]

Short term, it will tell, no doubt. But we will reap the benefits long term.

Villa need stability. We need long term planning big style. We are in 2011. Since 2000 - 11 yrs, we have had Gregory, Talylor, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houiller and McLeish as managers.

Its time to go back to doing what Villa do best - and that is building a club.

It will take time - and unfortunately, supporters nowadays wont give that.

When you say it will take time - what precisley are you aiming for ?

if to get us into CL and winning trophies - yes that will certainly take time.

I think most of us winning the majority of home games is a reasonable expectation now. It shouldn't really take that long to build a team than can beat wolves and albion at home ? - numerous villa manager have acheived that in there first season !

[theboyangel]

There just doesn't seem to be any passion on the pitch from the Villa players IMO and this must stem from the manager - I just don't find AMC inspirational or charismatic enough.

I understand the financial restrictions, which aren't his fault but I don't get any 'backs against the wall' or 'us against the world' vibe from him.

The likes of McCarthy, Pulis and even that c0ck Warnock instill passion in their teams, which can give them that extra something when their quality is lacking elsewhere.

I don't mind AMC but I don't look forward to his press conferences or matches and have no real confidence he can turn us around.

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

Mick McCarthy and Tony Pulis have far more Premiership experience and better Premiership records as managers than McLeish.

That puts his appointment into perspective.

[holtelower]

How do you know that ?

Personally, I didnt want him, but, what do I know.

Only 4 months ago, I heard all these "experts" saying Mancini wasnt the guy to take Man City forward because he was far too defensive - dugh !!!

I went asbolutely apeshit 13 yrs ago, when the Evening Mail had a headline "Trap (trapatonni) is Villa's man" only for 14 hours later, a certain nobody, from Wycombe Wanderers was announced as manager.

Oh how a blarted about "the cheap option" "the end of any ambition this club could ever have" - 4 months later we were top of the League !!!!!.

Only time will tell whether he is the right man or not. But it is time to stop "buying for now" "looking at todays result" and look further down the line.

All i am saying is yesterday, I saw us lose. But what I also saw was a 22yr old Bannan , that given the right player beside him (which I can equate to Cowans - Bannan needs a Bremner mk 1, or a Houghton (mk 2) ) could be a star at the Villa for 10 yrs.

I saw Herd - who quite frankly, looks that Bremner or Houghton.

I've seen Clark, who looks like Barry.

We've got a 24yr old Gabby and a 27 (just) year old Bent !!!!!

I can see the makings. And if it takes us finishing mid table - or even lower this year to see us compete in 3 yrs (which we can, as today has shown, the power is shifting, and Man U, Arsenal, and Chelsea will not dominate for much longer. Its the end of the cycle for those (in the same way 1990 was the end of the cycle for Liverpool) - I'll take it.

Man City are the ultimate PROOF of this. They have spent millions this year to get to that final step. Along the way they got to the step in the first place by sowing the seeds. Joe Hart (Shrewsbury) Micah Richards (???) , Kompany (6m) , Zabalata (6.45m) - they then bought De Jong for 18m - a lot.

These were all BEFORE the buyout.

But did all these players make Man City a top side overnight ?. No, they evolved. Bled a yougn side and year on year have built around them making shrewd signings. Yes, they have spent 30m on Aguera and Tevez. But they have also made some unbelievable signings using their heads - Barry - 12m was it - thats ni-on what we paid for NZogbia !.

I am not saying we are going to do a Man City - no one will. But give it time, thats all I am saying, and lets get rid of all the average crap, we cant compete now, thats a given, so lets build a team that can challenge in 3 yrs.

As for McLeish not instilling passion - the expression "you cant polish turds" comes to mind. This defence has been crap for 2 yrs, he is stuck with it at the moment. He knows it - he even said it last week. Unfortunately, until january, and realistically, next summer, he cant do a lot about it than play them.

[Dodgyknees]

Clark is nothing like Barry, I also disagree with a lot more of what you have said tbh.

[smetrov]

How do you know that ?

Personally, I didnt want him, but, what do I know.

Only 4 months ago, I heard all these "experts" saying Mancini wasnt the guy to take Man City forward because he was far too defensive - dugh !!!

I went asbolutely apeshit 13 yrs ago, when the Evening Mail had a headline "Trap (trapatonni) is Villa's man" only for 14 hours later, a certain nobody, from Wycombe Wanderers was announced as manager.

Oh how a blarted about "the cheap option" "the end of any ambition this club could ever have" - 4 months later we were top of the League !!!!!.

Only time will tell whether he is the right man or not. But it is time to stop "buying for now" "looking at todays result" and look further down the line.

All i am saying is yesterday, I saw us lose. But what I also saw was a 22yr old Bannan , that given the right player beside him (which I can equate to Cowans - Bannan needs a Bremner mk 1, or a Houghton (mk 2) ) could be a star at the Villa for 10 yrs.

I saw Herd - who quite frankly, looks that Bremner or Houghton.

I've seen Clark, who looks like Barry.

We've got a 24yr old Gabby and a 27 (just) year old Bent !!!!!

I can see the makings. And if it takes us finishing mid table - or even lower this year to see us compete in 3 yrs (which we can, as today has shown, the power is shifting, and Man U, Arsenal, and Chelsea will not dominate for much longer. Its the end of the cycle for those (in the same way 1990 was the end of the cycle for Liverpool) - I'll take it.

Man City are the ultimate PROOF of this. They have spent millions this year to get to that final step. Along the way they got to the step in the first place by sowing the seeds. Joe Hart (Shrewsbury) Micah Richards (???) , Kompany (6m) , Zabalata (6.45m) - they then bought De Jong for 18m - a lot.

These were all BEFORE the buyout.

But did all these players make Man City a top side overnight ?. No, they evolved. Bled a yougn side and year on year have built around them making shrewd signings. Yes, they have spent 30m on Aguera and Tevez. But they have also made some unbelievable signings using their heads - Barry - 12m was it - thats ni-on what we paid for NZogbia !.

I am not saying we are going to do a Man City - no one will. But give it time, thats all I am saying, and lets get rid of all the average crap, we cant compete now, thats a given, so lets build a team that can challenge in 3 yrs.

Yes but did you see Craig Gardner, Steven Davis, Luke Moore - or even Marc Albrighton last season.

Sorry to piss on your bonfire - but loads of young players have a good patch - it doesn't mean they are the real deal. long term - or even the rest of this season.

[steaknchips]

He dosnt play the guitar or jump about on the touchline..He dosnt give out fun interviews either. He chews gum with his mouth open in a suit and he looks ugly..

Makes me sick...

[Zatman]

There just doesn't seem to be any passion on the pitch from the Villa players IMO and this must stem from the manager - I just don't find AMC inspirational or charismatic enough.

really cant agree with that. you seem to be confusing lack of effort and talent. the players want to play for him. yesterday Herd, Warnock, Bannan, Dunne, Gabby, Given even Hutton with his reckless tackles showed they wanted to play for him

[theboyangel]

There just doesn't seem to be any passion on the pitch from the Villa players IMO and this must stem from the manager - I just don't find AMC inspirational or charismatic enough.

really cant agree with that. you seem to be confusing lack of effort and talent. the players want to play for him. yesterday Herd, Warnock, Bannan, Dunne, Gabby, Given even Hutton with his reckless tackles showed they wanted to play for him

Fair enough Zatman

[holtelower]

So make your mind up - coz all I have heard for 2 yrs is "give the kids a chance" and now you dont want it.

Football fans nowadays are ridiculous.

No, not all of them will. But some will, and these "some" take time.

Roy Keane was right, todays fan is just "prawn sadwich brigade" - they havent a bloody clue what it takes to be successful.

It is all, spend 25m on him, he looks good on football manager, buy him........

Where was the current no. 1 ,and currently the goalie sitting on top of the premier league playing 2 yrs ago - on loan at Small Heath Alliance, finishing mid table. Look at him now !.

If we want to be successful, its gonna take time. We have lost 2 - yes 2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! games this season, one to a Man City team that are taking United, Spurs and all apart in the own grounds, and one when we were crusing until a mystifying linesman decision.

Yesterday, we saw when we had 11 men, an attacking side, and in Bent, Gabby, Herd, Bannan, 4 great performances. Herd was then sent off and all the players we all knew would - Petrov, Dunne, Warnock and all fall to pieces.

I will have a guess by the start of December Clark will replace Collins. I will guess by January, Gardner will start to feature.

This year is going to be up and down. But by the end of it, we will know what is needed for next year.

As I put in another thread a few months back, put in a search engine, Aston Villas premiership appearances. Have a look at the top 10 players - then see how much they cost !

A clue -

1. Gareth Barry

2. Alan Wright

Go check it out

[dudevillaisnice]

I will have a guess by the start of December Clark will replace Collins.

Well considering we are apparently offering Collins a new contract I highly doubt that.