Darren Bent

[Morpheus]

Options are fine and yes Benteke was untried but your putting a lot of faith in Helenius and the ever consistent N'Zogbia. I don't share the same faith and we'll struggle without Benteke.

[villan_007]

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Jesus! You could find a negative in a barrel load of positives.

[Troglodyte]

Regarding the Bent to Fenerbahce links, are they still in for a striker after signing Emenike?

[privateer]

Having only just got married, with young kids,

    In my day it was done the other way around. That's what's wrong with the world today - bastards for bridesmaids and page boys.

 

So, Bent, take your immoral self off somewhere, anywhere, and do it soon before you corrupt anyone else. You even lied to that kid outside BH, you said you'd be gone soon.

[SikhInTrinity]

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Because Randy hasn't backed the manager before has he? Lets get a few things right here. MON was given millions, Alex McLeish had more  ££££ in one summer than he'd ever been given as a manager elsewhere, Lambert was given 20million net last year and this year around 10 to 12million. So yes Randy and PF are keeping the money to themselves, if PL was not being backed, I am pretty sure he would walk. They have a project at Villa, it may take a few years, but this lets go and throw some money at it, is not the strategy they are adopting, they have tried it got the t-shirt. Lets take the bomb squad for example, the outlay on 3 of those players alone is around 35million. We also have to realise, where this club is in terms of the massive outlay we shelved out to go for the Champions League it just was not sustainable. We finally have a manager, a board and most fans who can see what we are trying to do but yet they're accused of not backing the manager.

[praisedmambo]

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

I'm going by reports from people with links to the club like Kendrick and Nursey. Both of them imply we need to move on the Bomb squad to free up funds and then that money will be used on an AM. And it's not a surprise considering that between the bomb squad we will be spending 200k a week. Money doesn't grow on trees, especially not at Villa where we have been losing £50 odd million a year. 

 

Darren Bent has something to offer, but he doesn't offer US enough for the wages he's on. I think you're over complicating a very very simple matter. He's not going to play enough to justify the wages. So we sell him---which suits him too as he will actually play games---and we buy someone else, or otherwise stop losing so much money, which in the long term helps us reinvest in the team because we are not squandering money on bomb squad players who cost £12million a year on wages to do nothing. 

[Morpheus]

 

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Jesus! You could find a negative in a barrel load of positives.

 

Its not negative at all. Its a question based on the poster's assumption.

[OutByEaster?]

Options are fine and yes Benteke was untried but your putting a lot of faith in Helenius and the ever consistent N'Zogbia. I don't share the same faith and we'll struggle without Benteke.

 

I'm not so sure - we can play a front pairing of Gabby and Weimann, both of whom are better than Bent - it'd then just be a matter of hoping that either Tonev and Albrighton can provide width or that N'Zogbia, Helenius or maybe a new signing can provide a bit of creativity behind them. In either case, I think we'd be much weaker than we are with Benteke, but stronger than we would be with Bent. The only thing that leans in Bents favour in this situation is that Gabby could play on the left of midfield with Bent and Weimann up front - but I'd still prefer Gabby and Andi up front.

[villa-revolution]

Options are fine and yes Benteke was untried but your putting a lot of faith in Helenius and the ever consistent N'Zogbia. I don't share the same faith and we'll struggle without Benteke.

 

TBF Morpheus, every team outside of the `Rich 4` would struggle if they lost their most valuable player. Someone suggested earlier that without Benteke we would probably revert to a 4:4:2  In the current system that we play Weimann & Benteke are the wide men & Tekkers is in reality the lone striker. Effectively, what that 4 4 2 means is that Weimann + Agbonlahor = Benteke

 

Yes. Benteke really is that good.

 

Bent is obviously good enough to also play in that 4 4 2 but we all know the reality is he is never going to be selected.

[Morpheus]

 

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Because Randy hasn't backed the manager before has he? Lets get a few things right here. MON was given millions, Alex McLeish had more  ££££ in one summer than he'd ever been given as a manager elsewhere, Lambert was given 20million net last year and this year around 10 to 12million. So yes Randy and PF are keeping the money to themselves, if PL was not being backed, I am pretty sure he would walk. They have a project at Villa, it may take a few years, but this lets go and throw some money at it, is not the strategy they are adopting, they have tried it got the t-shirt. Lets take the bomb squad for example, the outlay on 3 of those players alone is around 35million. We also have to realise, where this club is in terms of the massive outlay we shelved out to go for the Champions League it just was not sustainable. We finally have a manager, a board and most fans who can see what we are trying to do but yet they're accused of not backing the manager.

 

I would very much like to get a few things right here.

 

First of all where have i stated that Lambert hasn't previously been backed? Nope didn't actually say that at all did I.

 

You are assuming then on the basis of Lambert being backed when he first came to the club and the expenditure this window that when Bent is sold he will automatically be given the Bent revenue to 'go again.' Thats fine but was Lambert backed in January when we were in trouble?

 

Lets look at our outlay this season. 10m-12m with Makoun gone and Bent possibly on his way for a rumoured 6m with several other players also off the wage bill. So when Bent eventually leaves what has our expenditure been to date this window? If Makoun was sold for buttons say 2m and Bent is sold for 6m with the increase in TV revenue do you actually think Lambert has been backed on all his targets?

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

You've also suggested that if Lambert hasn't been backed then he would walk. Would he though? How good would that look on a young manager's CV walking out on a club because he didn't get what he wanted? We had a much more experienced manager doing exactly that to our club i'm sure you remember how most fans reacted to that.

 

We very well might sign more players but to date and in my opinion our activity in the transfer market still smacks of a lack of investment by the chairman when we've all been realistic enough to state that we're still a long way from being a quality team again.

[Morpheus]

 

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

I'm going by reports from people with links to the club like Kendrick and Nursey. Both of them imply we need to move on the Bomb squad to free up funds and then that money will be used on an AM. And it's not a surprise considering that between the bomb squad we will be spending 200k a week. Money doesn't grow on trees, especially not at Villa where we have been losing £50 odd million a year. 

 

Darren Bent has something to offer, but he doesn't offer US enough for the wages he's on. I think you're over complicating a very very simple matter. He's not going to play enough to justify the wages. So we sell him---which suits him too as he will actually play games---and we buy someone else, or otherwise stop losing so much money, which in the long term helps us reinvest in the team because we are not squandering money on bomb squad players who cost £12million a year on wages to do nothing. 

 

Who have been wrong before.

 

I'm actually not over complicating things at all. I, like many others on here, have excepted that Bent is leaving. He is leaving because it has been made clear to him that he is no longer wanted and i'm sure there are other reasons for that which only the manager and Bent know about.

 

However Benteke cannot be expected to play every game of the season even in the Premiership. Worse still, if he picks up an injury do we have strikers prolific enough to carry us through? I'm not sure that we do and we are also very reliant on a system that really only Benteke can get the best out of due to his stature and dynamism. Gabby although having played the loan front man role before, doesn't have the same attributes as Benteke and for me there will always be a question mark over his goal ratio.

[SikhInTrinity]

 

 

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Because Randy hasn't backed the manager before has he? Lets get a few things right here. MON was given millions, Alex McLeish had more  ££££ in one summer than he'd ever been given as a manager elsewhere, Lambert was given 20million net last year and this year around 10 to 12million. So yes Randy and PF are keeping the money to themselves, if PL was not being backed, I am pretty sure he would walk. They have a project at Villa, it may take a few years, but this lets go and throw some money at it, is not the strategy they are adopting, they have tried it got the t-shirt. Lets take the bomb squad for example, the outlay on 3 of those players alone is around 35million. We also have to realise, where this club is in terms of the massive outlay we shelved out to go for the Champions League it just was not sustainable. We finally have a manager, a board and most fans who can see what we are trying to do but yet they're accused of not backing the manager.

 

I would very much like to get a few things right here.

 

First of all where have i stated that Lambert hasn't previously been backed? Nope didn't actually say that at all did I.

 

You are assuming then on the basis of Lambert being backed when he first came to the club and the expenditure this window that when Bent is sold he will automatically be given the Bent revenue to 'go again.' Thats fine but was Lambert backed in January when we were in trouble?

 

Lets look at our outlay this season. 10m-12m with Makoun gone and Bent possibly on his way for a rumoured 6m with several other players also off the wage bill. So when Bent eventually leaves what has our expenditure been to date this window? If Makoun was sold for buttons say 2m and Bent is sold for 6m with the increase in TV revenue do you actually think Lambert has been backed on all his targets?

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

You've also suggested that if Lambert hasn't been backed then he would walk. Would he though? How good would that look on a young manager's CV walking out on a club because he didn't get what he wanted? We had a much more experienced manager doing exactly that to our club i'm sure you remember how most fans reacted to that.

 

We very well might sign more players but to date and in my opinion our activity in the transfer market still smacks of a lack of investment by the chairman when we've all been realistic enough to state that we're still a long way from being a quality team again.

 

 

I like how you accuse others of 'assuming', it's ironic really. You've already assumed Helenius is not good enough, nor Tonev etc. Again what levels of investment are we talking here Morpheous to what would satisfy you? Also what level of player are you looking for? Is it Charlie Adam again?

Edited August 9, 2013 by SikhInTrinity

[praisedmambo]

 

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

 

 

I think you're not giving much respect to the fact that if we don't move on certain players then we still have to pay their wages. At the moment that is £12million a year being wasted. Until there are no players in this 'bomb squad' we will have less money to spend.

 

It's not so much assuming Lambert will be given the money if we sell these players, it's just realising that the club would no longer be losing £12million less a year, and therefore financially we would be in a better position for everything.

 

You also talk about bargain basement but respect the fact that Lambert has brought in six players. Okore was £4million, and four of the rest were about £2million. It all adds up and we have needed a SQUAD overhaul for years now. If he wasn't buying cheaply we'd need Man City levels of investment, which is unrealistic.

 

By Lambert's own admission we have been interested in Kiyotake. Whatever Nurenburg want for him he was not going to be 'bargain basement' but realistically around £8million. Clearly Lambert is trying to use his money wisely but there are signs he will make a Kiyotake level signing.

 

I agree with others I think your outlook is a bit negative.

Edited August 9, 2013 by praisedmambo

[praisedmambo]

Additionally Morpheus, I think you're doing that classic making assumptions too quick. As in, the transfer window isn't over yet.

 

And before you say that I or anyone else are making assumptions, what I or anyone else has said boils down to 'why don't you just wait and see before getting negative?'

[bannedfromHandV]

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Because Randy hasn't backed the manager before has he? Lets get a few things right here. MON was given millions, Alex McLeish had more  ££££ in one summer than he'd ever been given as a manager elsewhere, Lambert was given 20million net last year and this year around 10 to 12million. So yes Randy and PF are keeping the money to themselves, if PL was not being backed, I am pretty sure he would walk. They have a project at Villa, it may take a few years, but this lets go and throw some money at it, is not the strategy they are adopting, they have tried it got the t-shirt. Lets take the bomb squad for example, the outlay on 3 of those players alone is around 35million. We also have to realise, where this club is in terms of the massive outlay we shelved out to go for the Champions League it just was not sustainable. We finally have a manager, a board and most fans who can see what we are trying to do but yet they're accused of not backing the manager.

Indeed, and whilst he's been giving that money up for transfers the club has continued to make a rather large loss year on year......

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

And what makes you think that the revenue from Bent's sale and his wages will automatically be spent on other players?

 

Because Randy hasn't backed the manager before has he? Lets get a few things right here. MON was given millions, Alex McLeish had more  ££££ in one summer than he'd ever been given as a manager elsewhere, Lambert was given 20million net last year and this year around 10 to 12million. So yes Randy and PF are keeping the money to themselves, if PL was not being backed, I am pretty sure he would walk. They have a project at Villa, it may take a few years, but this lets go and throw some money at it, is not the strategy they are adopting, they have tried it got the t-shirt. Lets take the bomb squad for example, the outlay on 3 of those players alone is around 35million. We also have to realise, where this club is in terms of the massive outlay we shelved out to go for the Champions League it just was not sustainable. We finally have a manager, a board and most fans who can see what we are trying to do but yet they're accused of not backing the manager.

 

I would very much like to get a few things right here.

 

First of all where have i stated that Lambert hasn't previously been backed? Nope didn't actually say that at all did I.

 

You are assuming then on the basis of Lambert being backed when he first came to the club and the expenditure this window that when Bent is sold he will automatically be given the Bent revenue to 'go again.' Thats fine but was Lambert backed in January when we were in trouble?

 

Lets look at our outlay this season. 10m-12m with Makoun gone and Bent possibly on his way for a rumoured 6m with several other players also off the wage bill. So when Bent eventually leaves what has our expenditure been to date this window? If Makoun was sold for buttons say 2m and Bent is sold for 6m with the increase in TV revenue do you actually think Lambert has been backed on all his targets?

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

You've also suggested that if Lambert hasn't been backed then he would walk. Would he though? How good would that look on a young manager's CV walking out on a club because he didn't get what he wanted? We had a much more experienced manager doing exactly that to our club i'm sure you remember how most fans reacted to that.

 

We very well might sign more players but to date and in my opinion our activity in the transfer market still smacks of a lack of investment by the chairman when we've all been realistic enough to state that we're still a long way from being a quality team again.

 

 

I like how you accuse others of 'assuming', it's ironic really. You've already assumed Helenius is not good enough, nor Tonev etc. Again what levels of investment are we talking here Morpheous to what would satisfy you? Also what level of player are you looking for? Is it Charlie Adam again?

 

Lets keep it to the point of debate rather than your efforts to point score.

 

When Bent is sold and taking into consideration players already gone what level of investment has there been concerning transfers? 

 

Concerning Helenius and Tonev please don't put words into my mouth as i have never said either player isn't good enough.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

 

 

I think you're not giving much respect to the fact that if we don't move on certain players then we still have to pay their wages. At the moment that is £12million a year being wasted. Until there are no players in this 'bomb squad' we will have less money to spend.

 

It's not so much assuming Lambert will be given the money if we sell these players, it's just realising that the club would no longer be losing £12million less a year, and therefore financially we would be in a better position for everything.

 

You also talk about bargain basement but respect the fact that Lambert has brought in six players. Okore was £4million, and four of the rest were about £2million. It all adds up and we have needed a SQUAD overhaul for years now. If he wasn't buying cheaply we'd need Man City levels of investment, which is unrealistic.

 

By Lambert's own admission we have been interested in Kiyotake. Whatever Nurenburg want for him he was not going to be 'bargain basement' but realistically around £8million. Clearly Lambert is trying to use his money wisely but there are signs he will make a Kiyotake level signing.

 

I agree with others I think your outlook is a bit negative.

 

What has been the overall cost of those players you mention in relation to players leaving the club if you also include the expected sale of Bent?

 

Your statement which i've highlighted is ridiculous and needs no further comment on it.

 

My opinion is based on current levels of investment and projected sale of players. It is realism rather than negativity.

 

I see not too many are now mentioning the revenue from TV to fund this window and are instead concentrating on sales from the 'bomb squad' to fund further players.

 

If that is so and i will ask again, what do you think our projected net spend will be in relation to my point concerning actual investment ?

Edited August 10, 2013 by Morpheus

[praisedmambo]

 

 

 

 

Which leads me to the manager's targets. Do you honestly think that Lambert hasn't identified targets costing more money. Do you think if he was given the backing we all hoped he would after last season that he would still be searching within the bargain basement for players or relying on players being sold first before bringing in more?

 

 

 

I think you're not giving much respect to the fact that if we don't move on certain players then we still have to pay their wages. At the moment that is £12million a year being wasted. Until there are no players in this 'bomb squad' we will have less money to spend.

 

It's not so much assuming Lambert will be given the money if we sell these players, it's just realising that the club would no longer be losing £12million less a year, and therefore financially we would be in a better position for everything.

 

You also talk about bargain basement but respect the fact that Lambert has brought in six players. Okore was £4million, and four of the rest were about £2million. It all adds up and we have needed a SQUAD overhaul for years now. If he wasn't buying cheaply we'd need Man City levels of investment, which is unrealistic.

 

By Lambert's own admission we have been interested in Kiyotake. Whatever Nurenburg want for him he was not going to be 'bargain basement' but realistically around £8million. Clearly Lambert is trying to use his money wisely but there are signs he will make a Kiyotake level signing.

 

I agree with others I think your outlook is a bit negative.

 

What has been the overall cost of those players you mention in relation to players leaving the club if you also include the expected sale of Bent?

 

Your statement which i've highlighted is ridiculous and needs no further comment on it.

 

My opinion is based on current levels of investment and projected sale of players. It is realism rather than negativity.

 

I see not too many are now mentioning the revenue from TV to fund this window and are instead concentrating on sales from the 'bomb squad' to fund further players.

 

If that is so and i will ask again, what do you think our projected net spend will be in relation to my point concerning actual investment ?

 

For me the main fact in all of this: We were losing £50 odd million a year. The bomb squad cost £12million a year and it is sensible to move them on in order to fund further investment. It's too simple it hurts. Money has to come from somewhere. We are talking MILLIONS of pounds, it is not insignificant to piss that money down the drain on players nowhere near the team.

 

Your logic is the logic of someone playing Football Manager. 

[Morpheus]

And your logic is seemingly to ignore the question!

[Pelle]

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/08/11/crystal-palace-agree-personal-terms-with-aston-villa-striker-darren-bent/

 

What do you think?