HolteExile Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Not true. In MON's last season a back line of Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and warnock was the fourth best in the league. So they all must have been doing something right, not that you'd ever guess that reading most of the posts on this site. Perhaps. But hoping three or four of that lot will all recapture their form of three years ago is a bit much- even for such a renowned genius/ miracle worker as MON clearly is (sarcasm). One might, I would doubt they all can. They are all pushing or over 30 now, and the player who held that fourth best defence in the league together then (Dunne) has gradually been getting fatter, slower and more error prone. In the case of Collins and Warnock, they have served up two seasons of tripe now so I don't see how we can refuse any reasonable bids. Unless Magic Martin in his time away from football has cracked the code for the flux capacitor, I think we'll be quite okay to dispatch that pair to the footballing graveyard that is Slumberland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 wow, o`neills time at sunderland is about to take a turn for the worse. Could this be the place he gets found out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 wow, o`neills time at sunderland is about to take a turn for the worse. Could this be the place he gets found out?No. He'll up sticks before that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Disagree - He must have played half decent as he wouldnt have got a call up to the England squad etc. Henderson got called up for the England squad so I wouldn't read anything into that personally plus he was hardly first choice it was because of an injury he went in the first place. It has always been a joke. He seemed to be badly affected by the shin injury about Feb time I think - and his form deteriated from there. He has been terrible since he signed, no injury etc excuse will cover this up. It really is baffling how people give him a chance every season to produce the crap form he has since he signed.. would rather have a much younger better full back in place, Someone who isn't caught out of position every few minutes most teams know Warnock is a poor defender and they target the left side for this specific purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'd be happy to see the back of Collins. even last night he has a complete inability to play the ball to a midfielder.. just lumps it up into space, he earns high wages. also rumoured to be disruptive. We have a potentially really good CB in Clark who will be promoted to third in line providing we sign vlaar. I don't want to make the same mistake we made with Gary cahill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 MON's a great manager - he'll do well at Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 MON's a great motivator, not a great manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Not true. In MON's last season a back line of Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and warnock was the fourth best in the league. So they all must have been doing something right, not that you'd ever guess that reading most of the posts on this site. They were an excellent unit in 2009/10. 39 goals conceded in 38 league games. You take out the freak result against Chelsea where we conceded 7 then in the other 18 games that made up the second half of the season we conceded just 14 goals. They played a big part in our best ever 38 game Prem season. It is however doubtful they could get back to that kind of level but working under Lambert should help as the last two fuckwits didn't have a clue. I do however expect to see one of Collins, Dunne or Warnock moved on but wouldn't be surprised if those that remain start against Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 MON's a great manager - he'll do well at Sunderland. Forgive me for asking what seems such an obvious question - but if he is a great manager, why on earth is he at Sunderland? Maybe the decision makers at the better clubs don't agree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 MON's a great manager - he'll do well at Sunderland. Forgive me for asking what seems such an obvious question - but if he is a great manager, why on earth is he at Sunderland? Maybe the decision makers at the better clubs don't agree with you? It is an obvious question, tbf. He clearly doesn't like working with constraints and as a bit of a maverick, a top 4 club isn't really going to suit him - I can't imagine him being happy with them buying players for him (a la Chelsea, Man City or Liverpool) or being told who to play and when. The other side of that coin is that I don't think the owners of these clubs would be happy to have him tell them what he will or won't do. Secondly, Sunderland aren't exactly a small, poor club - very similar in stature to us in the modern day and they've never been shy of spending money. He left under a cloud here that made him look bad in the media, which didn't do his reputation much good and now Sunderland have given him a chance. He's been a success wherever he's been and I don't see that changing much at Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had. What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The short answer is that despite him being a good manager he is not good enough for a top four club. Like many who have gone before, O'Neill will never manage a club as big as us again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had. What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in?I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Collins is so-so. There are plenty better than him and likely cheaper options too. Warnock is woeful. He cannot deal with any ball knocked diagonally over him. I would like both gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 So that's the first question - the other two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limvillian Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had. What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in?I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent. Can you name the manager?One that would have come to villa at the time MON did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Under O'Neill we know both Warnock and Collins and FWIW Cuellar at RB can perform way above what there level has been over the past 2 years. Cuellar maybe, Collins maybe.. Warnock? no. He is awful and has been awful since the day he signed. Warnock was not awful when he first signed. He's been poor recently but I still think he gets a lot of stick for no real reason. Houllier **** him off and people slagged warnock over a rumour even though he's never had any history of causing trouble at any point in his career. And last season he played where ever he was asked without any fuss and while battling to stay in the league I thought warnock was one of the few players to look 100% committed, running up and down the pitch and throwing himself into every tackle. He needs to be moved on now and replaced with better but I think it's harsh the level of stick given to him on here. Absolutley spot on Big John. Towards the end of last season Warnock was one of our better performers but his detractors were incapable of acknowledging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent. He spent what approx 70 - 80 mill net taking us form 16th to three sixth place finishes on the spin with the 8th, 6th and 6th highest wage bill. Was that really enough to expect to finish above three from Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and from 2008 onwards Man City? I don't personally think it was given the base we started from. What I do know is that unless we are again prepared to spend big on transfers and again have a wage bill that reflects that of a club competing for a top 6 finish then there is absolutely no chance of us again establishing ourselves as a top 6 side and challenging for Champs League football. We may as Newcastle did last season have the odd very good season but doing it for 3 or 4 seasons on the spin will be anther matter. Lambert will be a very good manager for us but he is not a miracle worker. He will not get us back into the top 6 consistently without decent investment and a wage bill that reflects that position. It appears that Lerner/Faulkner are though unable to get income up to a level can sustain having a wage bill that reflects that of a top six club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had. What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in?I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent. Can you name the manager?One that would have come to villa at the time MON did?How am I supposed to know which managers would have come to Villa at that time and which wouldn't? I'm not a mind reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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