Rich_D Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 He will be heavily backed in the summer too, if you thought Darren Bent was a coup. I also think this. Randy always wanted the best for the club. He will let Houllier have a good wedge in the summer to make the team the way he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The basic question anyone would need to ask when looking to replace anyone is who could do a better job. Well in the case of Houllier it is arguably who could do any bloody worse. My preference would be for a young, hungry manager who has shown already he has something about him. A Graham Taylor Mark 1 if you like. A man who would see this great club for what it is massive opportunity to build something real special. Owen Coyle would most definitely fall in to that bracket. Paul Lambert, Simon Grayson whilst not proven at the top table have shown to me that they have that little something about them. A David Moyes when at Preston before Everton snapped him up. Aside form the above you could also take a different route and go for more experienced men like Van Gaal who it appears may well be available or Martin Jol. And of course the most obvious candidate and who would be my number one choice would be Moyes who I am confident will be looking for a new challenge come the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Im not sure this thread will stay open. But there is a very vocal minority of fans who continuously call for Houlliers head. THIS IS NOT A HOULLIER THREAD. But who would we have to replace him? It's all very well calling for somebody to be sacked. But who would we replace him? There are certain criteria that both us and the board would need to fill. They must be experienced in top flight football management. [board] They must be able to get the best out of Youth Players/ Our Youth System. They must be able to play the attractive attacking football we are beginning to play. They must be able to command the respect of both senior and young players They must be able to respect the club, it's fans, it's history and be able to take it forwards.They must be shrewd in the transfer market and have good connections, preferably worldwide. Have an accomplished Backroom team ready (and willing) to move in. Be able to organise our lacklustre defence. Be able to sort out the mess the club is in behind the scenes. Aka: Get Rid of players on ridiculous wages/bad attitudes Sort out our - now expanding - scouting network Have a clear vision for the progression of the youth system, experience in how it can be improved or have staff who can move in to sort it out.(whilst ours is good, it will be increasingly important to have Excellent Youth set-ups in the coming years) This is not an easy check-list for somebody to fill. Some of the names i hear bandied about are not suitable.. maybe some of them are from OUR point of view, giving a young manager a chance who is good at getting results and getting the best from a team (Lambert for instance). Would be accepted by many fans (not me personally). But would he meet the criteria above? Whether a fan of him or not. Houllier has been proven to do all of the above. He may not be doing a great job result wise or he may have fallen out with some players (one who should never wear the shit, not Houlliers fault, Carew who had his career stunted by Hou at Lyon) etc. But the rest of the checklist. He fits. Atleast on paper. Now not getting into the Houllier debate. Who else could we get - realistically - to meet these criteria? I've highlighted in BOLD where I believe Houllier has not met the criteria as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing over having a "young and hungry" manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yeah in honesty I meant to say most of the above, as those are 2 major problems with Houllier, hence why I even put the defence one there in the first place. 2 people mentioned Van Gaal, I wrote this about him before my thread got moved here: Somebody in the generals thread mentioned: Louis Van Gaal Today sacked from managing Bayern Munich, who he won the German double with, reaching the Champions League Final last season only to be beaten by his protege (Mourinho) in Madrid. Previously Managed: Ajax, Barca, Holland National Team Barca Again AZ Bayern. That ticks off 'Top Flight Management Experience'. Managing Barca and Ajax gives him unrivalled experience (having come through Ajax's system himself) in 2 of the best Youth System's in the world, first hand. He constantly gives upcoming youth players their starts. Recently giving Badstuten and other future stars their starts. 'Youth Experience and Youth Systems' Ticked off. 'Beautiful Attacking Football'. His teams are always playing fantastic possession football. He could move in and take us forwards and not backwards with the style of play he uses, not doing any detriment to what we have seen building in recent weeks. To me that shows he would be good in transfer market but I don't know what he would be like in the transfer market if im honest (other than part of the reason he began to fail at Bayern was because he refused to sign new players as he felt he didnt need too). Respect of players. Apparently on his first day at Bayern he walked into the dressing room and dropped his trousers to 'show he had the balls to drop any of them from the starting line up'. Defender Lucio turned up late to training once and was promptly sold to Inter Milan. He fell out with his senior players this year after selling Captain - Van Bommel because he was unhappy about being second choice to a new youngster, this annoyed Arjen Robben (reportedly) leading to a mutinous performance vs Hannover which they lost. From what I have read he is not a loveable manager. Not one players would come out and back up to the media. He is strict with his players, maybe we cold do with a bit of that? Personally. I think he is too good and too big for us. But I would take him in a heartbeat (I am pro-Houllier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far.To be fair most of the obsessing comes from people who think he's doing a bad job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_D Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far. But as you have pointed out, he firs a lot of the criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 They must be experienced in top flight football management. They must be able to get the best out of Youth Players/ Our Youth System. They must be able to play the attractive attacking football we are beginning to play. Is this a joke. There is nothing attractive about conceding goals aplenty and more importantly losing games. Houlliers brand of football throughout his career has been anything but attractive. They must be able to command the respect of both senior and young players They must be able to respect the club, it's fans, it's history and be able to take it forwards. They must be shrewd in the transfer market and have good connections, preferably worldwide. Have an accomplished Backroom team ready (and willing) to move in. Be able to organise our lacklustre defence. Of the above criterea that were listed the current manager fails in the ones highlighted in bold some he fails miserably in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 not one manager in the world can follow all them steps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_D Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yeah in honesty I meant to say most of the above, as those are 2 major problems with Houllier, hence why I even put the defence one there in the first place. 2 people mentioned Van Gaal, I wrote this about him before my thread got moved here: Somebody in the generals thread mentioned: Louis Van Gaal Today sacked from managing Bayern Munich, who he won the German double with, reaching the Champions League Final last season only to be beaten by his protege (Mourinho) in Madrid. Previously Managed: Ajax, Barca, Holland National Team Barca Again AZ Bayern. That ticks off 'Top Flight Management Experience'. Managing Barca and Ajax gives him unrivalled experience (having come through Ajax's system himself) in 2 of the best Youth System's in the world, first hand. He constantly gives upcoming youth players their starts. Recently giving Badstuten and other future stars their starts. 'Youth Experience and Youth Systems' Ticked off. 'Beautiful Attacking Football'. His teams are always playing fantastic possession football. He could move in and take us forwards and not backwards with the style of play he uses, not doing any detriment to what we have seen building in recent weeks. To me that shows he would be good in transfer market but I don't know what he would be like in the transfer market if im honest (other than part of the reason he began to fail at Bayern was because he refused to sign new players as he felt he didnt need too). Respect of players. Apparently on his first day at Bayern he walked into the dressing room and dropped his trousers to 'show he had the balls to drop any of them from the starting line up'. Defender Lucio turned up late to training once and was promptly sold to Inter Milan. He fell out with his senior players this year after selling Captain - Van Bommel because he was unhappy about being second choice to a new youngster, this annoyed Arjen Robben (reportedly) leading to a mutinous performance vs Hannover which they lost. From what I have read he is not a loveable manager. Not one players would come out and back up to the media. He is strict with his players, maybe we cold do with a bit of that? Personally. I think he is too good and too big for us. But I would take him in a heartbeat (I am pro-Houllier). Just as strict as Houllier. Respect is not a one way thing. If I didn't respect Ferguson, for example, I would get chucked. That is what happened with Carew etc. Houllier has the respect of the players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far.To be fair most of the obsessing comes from people who think he's doing a bad job. Is he not doing a bad job then in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far. But as you have pointed out, he firs a lot of the criteria. To be honest, no manager could ever meet that criteria, i pointed to the very basic ones and said Houllier is not achieving those for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing over having a "young and hungry" manager. Agreed. Not what we need imo. Young and Hungry managers go to Championship/Lower prem sides and work their way up. Thats the natural order of things. I'd rather somebody proven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far.To be fair most of the obsessing comes from people who think he's doing a bad job. Is he not doing a bad job then in your opinion?I think he's doing a good job in some areas, and a bad job in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Would you like to name those good and bad areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Would you like to name those good and bad areas? good. transfers gave youngsters chance(even though was sort of forced on him) better attacking football trimmed wage bill bad. some media comments the defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_D Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 They must be experienced in top flight football management. They must be able to get the best out of Youth Players/ Our Youth System. They must be able to play the attractive attacking football we are beginning to play. Is this a joke. There is nothing attractive about conceding goals aplenty and more importantly losing games. Houlliers brand of football throughout his career has been anything but attractive. They must be able to command the respect of both senior and young players They must be able to respect the club, it's fans, it's history and be able to take it forwards. They must be shrewd in the transfer market and have good connections, preferably worldwide. Have an accomplished Backroom team ready (and willing) to move in. Be able to organise our lacklustre defence. Of the above criterea that were listed the current manager fails in the ones highlighted in bold some he fails miserably in. Only a handful of managers will actually attract players. SAF is respected throughout the game...would players take a huge wage cut just to play for him? I doubt it. Has Houllier had the vision to get players that we never had of thought would play for Villa? Yes. Bent, Makoun, Walker Bradley were all, imo, unthinkable for actually pulling on a Villa shirt. Has he got mutual respect between the players and himself? I believe he has. He proved that he could man manage players that were willing to conform to his ways, such as Dunne. The difficult ones left. You telling me SAF hasn't got rid of players in the past that do not fit in with his way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Would you like to name those good and bad areas?Good Attacking Possession Transfers (in and out) Promoting youth Bad Defending Some of his comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Houllier has made some mistakes no doubt but it's not as if he is intentionally trying to sabotage the club . I can see what he is trying to do and with a full pre season , with a squad he can truly call his , I think we can progress . He Is only human at the end of the day and in no way deserves the vitriol he gets on here . As long as he starts learning from his mistakes and sorts the back 5 out ,then hopefully we can kick on and forget this abortion of a season . There are times when I want rid of the guy but the I remember how I mock clubs who go through gaffers like Charlie Sheen goes through coke and whores . It's a cliche but we all know even Fergie was a slow starter . There are no quick fixes , unless you strike oil , so we will just have to be patient . It may be painful and we may lose top players to wealthier clubs but if we are canny there are stil ways to succeed . If we can't outspend them then we can certainly out-youth them . Just have to keep the kids together and wait . We will be a force in the coming years , I have no doubts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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