bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 We're going to have to wait and see one way or another. There are a few promising signs, but I am concerned with the gaffes; too many and he'll undermine himself. Aye, too many gaffes. Liverpool. Man city debacle. Still, it could be worse. Despite the sometimes cringeworthy comments in the press I still prefer that over what we used to get with GT MkII. Could never understand what he was on about. Its way too many gaffes, its not just Liverpool & Man City, there's the whole 7-12th thing, the MON's fault for the defence thing and a few more besides, the man makes Inspector Clouseau seem like a top PR manager. The press must sit there with baited breath just waiting for him to balls up again at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 9, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2011 Good post Understudy. Everything seems black and white to some. Just because some of us (me included) want Houllier to stay, doesn't mean we think everything he does/has done is or has been good. I hated the Man City selection. Houllier's biggest mistake so far in my book. But that doesn't make me want him gone. I can see the potential for improvement. And whilst I can see that I'm happy for him to be here. He won't take us down, and next season hopefully he can push on and get us back up to the top end of the table. If by September/October he hasn't done that, and we are getting results like we've gotten this season, then it will be time for him to go. I still think though, as it stands, he's got more to offer us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 So houllier starts badly next season and goes then we'll hear the new manager blame houlliers regime, need to sign his own players, change the style etc.. And before you know it we've had another shit season. Where does that leave us in terms of keeping and attracting quality? 8 months, millions of pounds and a squad with good players in should be enough to show what a manager is about and IMO it's been pretty much a complete disaster so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think people need to stop obsessing by the fact that they think Houllier is doing a good job thus far.To be fair most of the obsessing comes from people who think he's doing a bad job. Is he not doing a bad job then in your opinion? He is doing a decent job considering the shit storm he walked into!! Bill Shankley would have stuggled to sort that mess out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Excellent post il_serpente. I fully agree with everything you've said. As theunderstudy has stated, no-one thinks Houllier is without blame. I'm annoyed about what happened at Man City, I wasn't too impressed with what happened at Liverpool, I do think he's made some odd tactical decisions and that we should be higher than where we are in the table. But I can see what Houllier is doing and, even if it's not for longer than a couple of seasons, I want us to stick by him and see what he can build. One of the main reasons I want to stick by him is because he's a big, big name and he's respected in France - a bit like how Arsene Wenger is. If he can bring us some good, young talent and attract a few players from France that we couldn't attract without him, like Makoun, then it will be worthwhile in the long run. I don't think we'll get relegated, I don't think we'll make Europe this year. But I do want us to stick by Houllier and give him time to see what he can achieve when he's given another transfer window or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 Posts removed, try actually debating points instead of nitpicking about who said what, oh and quoting something and posting THIS, nodding smilies and all that other gibberish is irritating, try adding something to the debate if you want to agree with someone instead of wasting everyones time with a simple repeat, this is a forum for debate not twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 One of the main reasons I want to stick by him is because he's a big, big name and he's respected in France - a bit like how Arsene Wenger is. Just curious really, what makes you think Houllier is respected in France? When he came here he was getting a rather large amount of flak for the World Cup debacle, a lot of the blame was pointed at his door as DOF (or whatever he was). Also Arsene Wenger is respected far more here and in Japan than he is in France. He managed Monaco when they were flush with money, thats about the size of his reputation in France and many criticise him for stealing all their talent away from France at an early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It appears some are pinning there hopes on Houllier making more signings over the summer but you'd have to question how much difference making new signings would make under Houllier. He has signed 4 players ( 2 on loan ) and since the close of the transfer window we have played 6, won 1, drew 2, lost 3. Now don't get me wrong he has made some good signings but he fails to get the best out of the team. It really does beg the question as to whether he should be moved upstairs and the day to day affairs of training ( maybe even working on set pieces ) moulding a group of players to all pull in the same direction etc and the match day tasks of picking a team/formation/tactics/motivating players and inspiring players to give their all is left to someone else. The big question is finding someone who would be prepared to work with him being in the background. Having good players at your disposal means **** all if you can't get the best out of them and mould a squad/team all inspired to pull in the same direction. He has a hell of a lot of good players now but game after game after game we get the basics wrong meaning that any pretty stuff which we at times produce is pretty much rendered irrelevant. If he stays beyond this season, which is clearly very much dependent on how we do over the next nine games, then something needs to change either in terms of his role at the club or getting someone alongside him on the training ground/in the dressing room that can help with the things he is clearly failing at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 One of the main reasons I want to stick by him is because he's a big, big name and he's respected in France - a bit like how Arsene Wenger is. Just curious really, what makes you think Houllier is respected in France? I remember reading a quote from a French player who said that people in France keep an eye on Arsenal and Arsene Wenger because they respect him and that it was the same with Houllier. I'm not French so don't have much to base it on. But the fact that we got Makoun and I read that article, is enough for me to think that Houllier could get us a few players from France. Also, I don't know how involved he was with France's most recent World Cup team, hasn't he been working with the youth side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Equally any people wanting Houllier gone are pinning their hopes on an adequate replacement, which would have to be for a long term appointment. And there aren't too many suitable at this moment in time, Coyle would be my first choice should that situation arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 Also, I don't know how involved he was with France's most recent World Cup team, hasn't he been working with the youth side? No that was before he was even Liverpool boss. He was director of the youth academy a long long time ago, most of his youth players are either retired or close to it. His last job was DOF at the FFA and he was getting an awful amount of flak in the french Press last summer for his role in appointing a certain fitness coach and allowing the debacle to go on as long as it did and in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It appears some are pinning there hopes on Houllier making more signings over the summer but you'd have to question how much difference making new signings would make under Houllier. He has signed 4 players ( 2 on loan ) and since the close of the transfer window we have played 6, won 1, drew 2, lost 3. Now don't get me wrong he has made some good signings but he fails to get the best out of the team. It really does beg the question as to whether he should be moved upstairs and the day to day affairs of training ( maybe even working on set pieces ) moulding a group of players to all pull in the same direction etc and the match day tasks of picking a team/formation/tactics/motivating players and inspiring players to give their all is left to someone else. The big question is finding someone who would be prepared to work with him being in the background. Having good players at your disposal means **** all if you can't get the best out of them and mould a squad/team all inspired to pull in the same direction. He has a hell of a lot of good players now but game after game after game we get the basics wrong meaning that any pretty stuff which we at times produce is pretty much rendered irrelevant. If he stays beyond this season, which is clearly very much dependent on how we do over the next nine games, then something needs to change either in terms of his role at the club or getting someone alongside him on the training ground/in the dressing room that can help with the things he is clearly failing at. Last 6 league games: W2 L2 D2 Last 7 league games:W3 L2 D2 This obviously includes the Bolton loss where we had Baker and Clark as CB's, who had a hand in all 3 Bolton goals. Not a bad recent league record considering the position we find ourselves in and the changes we've had this season. It's usually harder to find results when your down the bottom and under pressure. Don't you think Houllier has the players playing for him now? I think they've come round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 When he came here he was getting a rather large amount of flak for the World Cup debacle Oh come on it aint Houlliers fault that the French national team is a bunch of arrogant, jumped up whingers who dont get along. Next you will try and convice me that it was Houllier who was on the grassy knoll with a scoped rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 To be honest i do not care if he is respected in France, Japan or wherever? He wanted to bring in Fofana and for some reason his comments in that debacle caused a bit of a mess too, on one hand he said his wage structure didn't fit with ours and then we were told he failed a medical. Is he respected by the fans and i'd say the poll would suggest their is a huge divide between Villa fans on him. Also lets not keep hoping about these players from France being superstars because Wenger and Houllier have signed some duds from that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 When he came here he was getting a rather large amount of flak for the World Cup debacle Oh come on it aint Houlliers fault that the French national team is a bunch of arrogant, jumped up whingers who dont get along. Next you will try and convice me that it was Houllier who was on the grassy knoll with a scoped rifle. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, as DOF he had responsibility for overseeing everything, the French Press last summer were claiming Houllier must shoulder some of the blame. There was even talk that he was going to be sacked not long before we made our offer, that doesn't mean its true but that is what some of the French press were reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Equally any people wanting Houllier gone are pinning their hopes on an adequate replacement, which would have to be for a long term appointment. And there aren't too many suitable at this moment in time, Coyle would be my first choice should that situation arise. I don't think its that difficult in all fairness. These players are good players, some of them are very good players. They can also produce as a team. They showed us last season when on the whole they did well and had relative success in comparison to now. O'Neill wasn't a great manager. He wasn't able to get crap players to perform. Given the players at his disposal he got about what you'd expect from them. In fact Houllier is making O'Neill look like a far better manager than he is. I watched a re run of the Man City game over the wekend ( I was at the game ) and both Strachan and Southgate commented on what a good squad of players Aston Villa have and how a lot of managers would love to have our squad at their disposal. They were right. We are massively under achieving. No way should we be flirting above the drop zone with 9 games to go. Can Houllier turn it around before the end of the season. Possibly. All the evidence so far though would suggest its unlikely. I really believe we need a younger manager. Someone who is hungry for success and has a real vibrancy about them. Who can come in with real enthusiasm and see the club for the massive opportunity that it is. I've said it before but we need someone like Graham Taylor Mark One. As you said Coyle would certainly fit the bill and I wouldn't mind us taking a punt on Lambert or Grayson. Similar to what Everton did when they plucked David Moyes from Preston. These guys just seem to have that spark and hunger about. Also Moyes will be looking for a new challenge come the summer I believe and he would be a perfect fit for us. Whether Houllier could stay in some capacity especially if we did bring a younger guy in then maybe that is a possibility and he could offer something in a DOF like role. For me though in terms of day to day training and in the dressing room he is now being found lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerlad Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Course he should stay. He's made a few mistakes, all managers do. We've not had a great season for many reasons, not just GH. Give him the summer, let him build his team and see how we go from there. Sacking him now/in the summer would serve no purpose at all. Next season would be poor and transitional just as this one has been and the first under MON was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I thought that whole mess was down to the players not liking Domenec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2011 I thought that whole mess was down to the players not liking Domenec No there were other issues in there too, that was just one of them. Duverne (our current fitness coach) was also clearly an issue for Evra. The situation was as far as I could make out never as simple as the players vs the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Did he also not back Domenech too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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