Kingfisher Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 He is NOT good on the ball and I'm getting tired of hearing it. And also, what the hell does it even matter, especially if he can't defend?!? Do you sign strikers who are woeful in front of goal because they can tackle well? The statement 'Clark is comfortable on the ball' is as meaningless as it's false. He's made poor decisions in possession that have led to goals twice this season off the top of my head, for us and ROI. What does a defender need good on the ball skills for, that could possibly make up for his poor defending. Does he need to dribble? Play slide rule passes on a regular basis? Perhaps someone can explain to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Clark thinks he's better than he is, which is the worst of his many faults. Bringing it back to Baker, he's solid and fairly reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 The statement 'Clark is comfortable on the ball' is as meaningless as it's false. He's made poor decisions in possession that have led to goals twice this season off the top of my head, for us and ROI. What does a defender need good on the ball skills for, that could possibly make up for his poor defending. Does he need to dribble? Play slide rule passes on a regular basis? Perhaps someone can explain to me. Strikers used to stand still and the defence had lots of time to pump it up field or play it square. They didn't have to use Cruyff turns, roulettes and step-overs to avoid an on-rushing striker. In the modern game defenders are harassed a lot more by hard working strikers. This is why the 'slide rule' pass is not that simple any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, the statement Clark is good on the ball is still, after Con's explanation, a very dubious one considering his tendancy to get caught out with the ball. Moreover, I simply don't subscribe to the theory that central defenders need to be anything more than minimally competent on the ball, and certainly not in place of defensive ability. The 'Oh he can't defend too good, but he's the ball playing CB of the team, and that makes up for it' sounds like bollocks to me. Bringing the thread back on topic, Baker has the or is developing the core skills/requirements of a CB very well. 1 He is physically strong 2 His positional awareness is good/improving 3 He tackles and heads very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Bringing the thread back on topic, Baker has the or is developing the core skills/requirements of a CB very well. 1 He is physically strong 2 His positional awareness is good/improving 3 He tackles and heads very well. I'd say nothing less than this, and a great deal more. Mature beyond his years. That still doesn't make Clark a 3rd rate CB. They are both excellent and if I was the manager I'd still have Clark first choice, even though I rate Baker very highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 baker is better than clarke..no question..baker is improving steady as clarke is not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 baker is better than clarke..no question..baker is improving steady as clarke is not Young players go hot and cold. One week they're world class, next week, it's schoolboy errors. Rather have the more consistent player in the run-in. Baker will be awesome, I know it, but Clark will be a great player too, and I'd rather have the more experienced one at the back going in to the games that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 baker is better than clarke..no question..baker is improving steady as clarke is not Young players go hot and cold. One week they're world class, next week, it's schoolboy errors. Rather have the more consistent player in the run-in. . so you'd rather have baker then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I would say on the ball Clark is the same level as James Collins. OK/average nothing special which they think they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 No, I would recall Clark, who probably didn't start against Fulham due to fitness concerns rather than perceived form. Over the whole season Clark has been more reliable than Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) No, I would recall Clark, who probably didn't start against Fulham due to fitness concerns rather than perceived form. Over the whole season Clark has been more reliable than Baker. You'll very much find yourself in the minority yet again. Seeing as you base your opinion on defensive errors on a stat website and the fact that Clark is a full international. If what you're saying is true, then will Clark be back in for united? Cause in your eyes, lambert very much sees him as ahead of baker when both fit. Edited April 14, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Baker is the next Terry Butcher but give him a break... Clark should take the responsibility over the final games. Unbelievable pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Baker is the next Terry Butcher but give him a break... Clark should take the responsibility over the final games. Unbelievable pressure. you didn't answer the question. Because baker didn't keep his place last week based on ability. Just injuries. So surely Clark will come in next week, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 baker is better than clarke..no question..baker is improving steady as clarke is not That's the crux of it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 No, I would recall Clark, who probably didn't start against Fulham due to fitness concerns rather than perceived form. Over the whole season Clark has been more reliable than Baker. reliable at what? costing us points. He has been one of main reasons we are struggling. said before Clark is OK as a 4th choice defender but not 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 No, I would recall Clark, who probably didn't start against Fulham due to fitness concerns rather than perceived form. Over the whole season Clark has been more reliable than Baker. reliable at what? costing us points. He has been one of main reasons we are struggling. said before Clark is OK as a 4th choice defender but not 1st Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'm still waiting for my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Can't know for sure. We can only speculate. I'd be surprised if Clark is not in the team against Man Utd. Baker's done nothing wrong but you don't give your most inexperienced defender all the responsibility. The argument that Baker has performed better than Clark is very suspect. Yes he's played well but we are still conceding and he has made more glaring errors than Clark this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Can't know for sure. We can only speculate. I'd be surprised if Clark is not in the team against Man Utd. Baker's done nothing wrong but you don't give your most inexperienced defender all the responsibility. The argument that Baker has performed better than Clark is very suspect. Yes he's played well but we are still conceding and he has made more glaring errors than Clark this season. You'd be surprised if Clark didn't come in for previous MOTM Baker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Can't know for sure. We can only speculate. I'd be surprised if Clark is not in the team against Man Utd. Baker's done nothing wrong but you don't give your most inexperienced defender all the responsibility. The argument that Baker has performed better than Clark is very suspect. Yes he's played well but we are still conceding and he has made more glaring errors than Clark this season. You'd be surprised if Clark didn't come in for previous MOTM Baker? Baker at left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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