CrackpotForeigner Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Where, when , which planet ? Are we talking about the same player Versus Man Utd.And Wigan and Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 Didn't Hogg play well v ManUre aswell though (albeit a different game)You asked where, when, which planet. I think I answered all 3. You're trying to deny everything positive. The reality is somewhere in the middle of the 2. I'm a fan of Makoun, but to be fair to CI, he's right. Hogg did have a good game against Man Utd when Houllier was in charge. We're not talking about Hogg. Whether Hogg played well is completely irrelevant in a discussion about which planet Makoun played well on. Makoun played well against United. That answers his query. If you want to talk about how well Hogg played in another unrelated game and another completely different discussion then maybe go here. So no, it's not right to try and divert from a response that cites a good Makoun performance by citing a time someone else played well too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Didn't Hogg play well v ManUre aswell though (albeit a different game)You asked where, when, which planet. I think I answered all 3. You're trying to deny everything positive. The reality is somewhere in the middle of the 2. I'm a fan of Makoun, but to be fair to CI, he's right. Hogg did have a good game against Man Utd when Houllier was in charge. We're not talking about Hogg. Whether Hogg played well is completely irrelevant in a discussion about which planet Makoun played well on. Makoun played well against United. That answers his query. If you want to talk about how well Hogg played in another unrelated game and another completely different discussion then maybe go here. So no, it's not right to try and divert from a response that cites a good Makoun performance by citing a time someone else played well too I dislike 'trollery' as much as everyone else BOF, but I think that's a bit unfair. Though the point might not have been explained as well as we'd like, I think CI is just continuing the discussion by saying someone can play well in one game and still go on to be a player not deemed good enough for us. I think it's completely relevant. We can't just talk about Makoun's performances. (Of course... we could also say that Hogg was simply given the job to man-mark Fletcher, and barely completed a crisp pass in that good game of his!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 People keep clinging to this supposed great performance against Man U but it does need to be pointed out that they beat us with ease, so whatever he was doing, it didn't help us compete very effectively. I'm a bit worried if his whole (or main) reputation is built on such weak foundations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 I dislike 'trollery' as much as everyone else BOF, but I think that's a bit unfair. Though the point might not have been explained as well as we'd like, I think CI is just continuing the discussion by saying someone can play well in one game and still go on to be a player not deemed good enough for us. I think it's completely relevant. We can't just talk about Makoun's performances.Have I gone into an alternative reality ? Here's the discussion. "Show me where, when, what planet Makoun ever played a good game in". "versus Man Utd" "yeah well so did Hogg". "I answered your question". That's it. CI was trying to say Makoun had never ever played a good game for Villa. He has played good games for Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 That argument just doesn't fly. Unless you expect a player to be able to singlehandedly beat United to consider them a good player, the point that Utd beat us, ergo Makoun isn't good is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 People keep clinging to this supposed great performance against Man U but it does need to be pointed out that they beat us with ease No, they don't. The Utd game is just quite a convenient example when people cling to the supposed opinion that he never played a good game for us. Nothing more, nothing less. People need to realise it's not as simple as being 100% one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 So Briny, if people are judging him after 1 game, why are you writing him off after 7 games? I so hope Karim gets a bit longer than that to be judged a good player or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I dislike 'trollery' as much as everyone else BOF, but I think that's a bit unfair. Though the point might not have been explained as well as we'd like, I think CI is just continuing the discussion by saying someone can play well in one game and still go on to be a player not deemed good enough for us. I think it's completely relevant. We can't just talk about Makoun's performances.Have I gone into an alternative reality ? Here's the discussion. "Show me where, when, what planet Makoun ever played a good game in". "versus Man Utd" "yeah well so did Hogg". "I answered your question". That's it. CI was trying to say Makoun had never ever played a good game for Villa. He has played good games for Villa. Sorry BOF, I must have missed where CI said Makoun had never ever played a good game for Villa. To Me, it just looked like CI raised an additional point (not directly to you), and you gave him backlash for no reason. Didn't Hogg play well v ManUre aswell though (albeit a different game) You asked where, when, which planet. I think I answered all 3. You're trying to deny everything positive. The reality is somewhere in the middle of the 2. IMO, of course... :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 It is the opinion of someone who has missed the point, so it doesn't bother me :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What point did I miss BOF? :? "Show me where, when, what planet Makoun ever played a good game in". "versus Man Utd" "Hogg played well against Man Utd". "I answered your question". Is he not allowed to raise another point other than his original question that you answered? Hogg did play well against Man Utd, and the last I heard he was sold to Pompey. Makoun could have a similar fate after a handful of decent games. I'm guessing that was the point CI was trying to make. (BTW, I completely disagree with him because I rate Makoun and think he can be a decent player for us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 He was hanging his hat on the original premise. A very specific one at that. It was disproven so he moved the goalposts. A fairly standard tactic that people are entitled to do, often 'til the cows come home. You tend to get a sense for cyclical arguments on here. I just like to burst the odd balloon every now and again. You'll notice it wasn't originally my discussion. I just saw an open goal as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooh-Ah Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 People keep clinging to this supposed great performance against Man U but it does need to be pointed out that they beat us with ease, so whatever he was doing, it didn't help us compete very effectively. I'm a bit worried if his whole (or main) reputation is built on such weak foundations. IIRC we were a bit unlucky in the game in question. We conceded early and again just before half-time but all in all I think we really put it up to them. Albrighton almost scored at 2-1 and even when we went 3-1 down we pushed on; Young hit the bar etc. As far as performances at Old Trafford go I'd say it was probably one of our best in around twenty years, which isn't saying much I know but losing doesn't mean it's impossible for one of our players to have a particularly impressive game. Makoun played well in this game and also did okay in others. In general I think he deserves another chance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 the point that Utd beat us, ergo Makoun isn't good is moot.Fortunately for me that isn't my argument. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Fair enough BOF. As I say, I disagree with him too :winkold: I think Makoun and his jumper will be rocking Villa Park this year 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 the point that Utd beat us, ergo Makoun isn't good is moot.Fortunately for me that isn't my argument. Phew! *Makoun didn't have a good game. My point still stands. The outcome of the game, and Makoun's performance are almost mutually exclusive, especially considering he's a deep lying midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a feeling that makoun will become another angel. A cult hero who can do no wrong. The odd good performance will be spoke about non stop and the poor performances will be blamed on team mates, tactics, manager etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a feeling that's already happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a feeling that makoun will become another angel. A cult hero who can do no wrong. The odd good performance will be spoke about non stop and the poor performances will be blamed on team mates, tactics, manager etc.. Guess Lambert will decide that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have a feeling that makoun will become another angel. A cult hero who can do no wrong. The odd good performance will be spoke about non stop and the poor performances will be blamed on team mates, tactics, manager etc.. I have a feeling that you just dislike jumpers or jumper-wearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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