John_Lerwill Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 GH has shown quite a few things, hampered by what he has inherited. Some have said that he has tried to change things too quickly, and maybe that is a fair criticism. With the injury list he has had it's not surprising that there was a severe slippage ... the Chelsea match should have given us hope ... let's see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 OK fair point. What I mean't was it won't be easy for a new manager to turn this around - the longer we leave it the harder it gets - new manager won't guarantee our survival. I beleive GH has shown nothing in 3/4 months - and this will continue until the end of his reign. New = Fighting Chance of staying in the prem GH = relegation. What if the new manager comes in and half the first team get injured and the other half dont like him and are pining after the old manager? Look i'm not defending Houllier and are as worried as the next fan, but Lerner wont get rid yet and we just have to hope Houllier gets his point across the the players respond. Question of probability I suppose. A new manager could come in and be a disaster - we don't know What we do know is the current incumbent is that disaster already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Big John, I don't know how you read into it what you have. No Villa supporter is happy with their team's current position but a number do not see the situation as you do. I don't think anyone is saying Houllier is without fault, but he has been hugely undermined by what he has inherited (and injuries) and only now has a genuine chance to put the matter right. We have no choice but to see how it goes over the next few matches. I agree with this John. I do see BJ's point of view as well. It can only be other problems for so long, at some point Houllier is just continuing not to work and could take us down. A new manager always has to stamp his authority on the club, the players as professionals have to take this on board. Its obvious that Houllier will change how training works etc thats his prerogative as the boss. If players are kicking up a fuss because its not the MON way they are used too, then we shouldn't just pamper to them and continue to do everything the MON way, thats just not productive either. Our defence played well last season (well the first part of it) now they are shit, should Houllier just go back to the MON way to keep players happy and improve our defence? Thats nor productive and damaging in the long run, as its doin something the way of the ex manager, the two styles will class even more down the line. Its obvious MON's control and persona had a massive impact on the way things were done. Our current league position puts more pressure on Houllier, if they didn't like how things were being run but we were higher up they would have to put up with it. I would much prefer our manager to try and do what he thinks is correct, rightly or wrongly, players should not decide anything that important. This a long list of ridiculous injuries has not helped. But we should just continue as Houllier struggles to get to grasp of things and get his point across? No, at some point it will have to change, i hope its not too late. Jez, you're right ... couldn't have put it better meself. On your last para, it is touch and go, but with 17 games left and (let's face it) any 3 of the current bottom 7 or even 10 could go down, there's still enough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Also it's different that hodgson took over a Liverpool side on the slide after a poor league finish whereas houllier took over a team that had just delivered their best season in years, but I guess some people wouldn't care about that. Redknapp showed that a good manager doesn't need a whole summer to actually do well. But surely you release that MON has quite an imposing personality and persona around the place, he controlled everything, then just gone! Its not just the case of 1 manager get the players playing well, another completely different manager should do exactly the same? Extreme example, when Fergie leaves should his successor just have the team playing just as well straight away? Its not as black and white as that, far from it. It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but its not just a case of the players playing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Houllier has failed in every sense of the word - I can't really see how you can seruiosly argue otherwise. True there have been injuries, but the sides put out against Man City, Spurs, Sunderland were pretty close to full strentgh. Ive been following villa for over 30 years - And either at villa or other clubs - I haven't known a manager win 3 games out of sixteen, slide into the relegation zone - then suddenley turn it round and storm up the table. Sadly I don't see GH doing it either. Its a tall order for a new bloke coming now - but with GH we are walking towards relegation - I know Randy wants to give him a chance - but the longer he leaves it the worse it will get. There is quite simply no way back for GH. But even in the games you mention, we had player's coming back from injury, CB's playing FB, a player sent off. Against 3 of the top 6 sides in the league. GH has made mistakes, but to say we were almost back to full strength is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but its not just a case of the players playing the same. I don't think anyone should have expected houllier to have us challenging the top 4 but to be where we are is an absolute disgrace. But even in the games you mention, we had player's coming back from injury, CB's playing FB, a player sent off. Against 3 of the top 6 sides in the league. I'm confident that no matter what happens if we lose today you'll have a good excuse ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Also it's different that hodgson took over a Liverpool side on the slide after a poor league finish whereas houllier took over a team that had just delivered their best season in years, but I guess some people wouldn't care about that. Redknapp showed that a good manager doesn't need a whole summer to actually do well. But surely you release that MON has quite an imposing personality and persona around the place, he controlled everything, then just gone! Its not just the case of 1 manager get the players playing well, another completely different manager should do exactly the same? Extreme example, when Fergie leaves should his successor just have the team playing just as well straight away? Its not as black and white as that, far from it. It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but its not just a case of the players playing the same. Pretty sure if fergies successor wins only 3 of his first 16 games he would shown the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker1234 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Also it's different that hodgson took over a Liverpool side on the slide after a poor league finish whereas houllier took over a team that had just delivered their best season in years, but I guess some people wouldn't care about that. Redknapp showed that a good manager doesn't need a whole summer to actually do well. Redknapp and Houllier haven't been in the same position, as MM said even before Houllier came 6 players were already **** about, injuries, 3 strikers being out at the same time. I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Not the same situation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse.I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker1234 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 B Alnwick B Assou-Ekotto G Bale D Bent D Bentley D Berbatov K Boateng J Bostock C Butcher F Campbell P Chimbonda V Corluka C Cudicini S Dawkins M Dawson J Defoe D Dervite H Ghaly Gilberto G Giovani H Gomes C Gunter T Huddlestone A Hutton O Jansson J Jenas R Keane L King A Lennon R Mason L Modric J O'Hara J Obika W Palacios D Parrett R Pavlyuchenko R Rocha D Rose S Sanchez A Smith A Taarabt A Townsend J Woodgate D Zokora ------------------------------ How many of that team would walk into our team? how many of our team would get into that team? They had a better side back then than we have now. So good infact that one of their players went to Man Utd for 30 million. Strike force of Bent, Berbatov, Keane and Pava. We have Gabby, Carew, Fonz and Heskey....I know which I would rather have if I were a manager to get me out of the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Firstly redknapp didn't have all those players when he joined spurs. All you're showing is a decent team were doing terrible under a shit manager and once he was replaced the new manager did better instantly. I have no doubt the same will happen here once that prick is gone. Keep the excuses going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 GH has shown quite a few things, hampered by what he has inherited. Some have said that he has tried to change things too quickly, and maybe that is a fair criticism. With the injury list he has had it's not surprising that there was a severe slippage ... the Chelsea match should have given us hope ... let's see how it goes.Sorry, John, but constantly citing the Chelsea match is clutching at straws. Chelsea really were shockingly poor - witness their next result against Wolves - and yet we came within a whisker let them sneak a win. I think the preceding and subsequent results against Man C and Sunderland are more an indication of where we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 What if the new manager comes in and half the first team get injured and the other half dont like him and are pining after the old manager? Well one positive thing here is that when Houllier gets replaced, not one of the players will be pining after him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker1234 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Firstly redknapp didn't have all those players when he joined spurs. Your correct John, he bought 4 players in his 1st January transfer window Jermain Defoe Portsmouth £ 15000000 06-01-2009 Wilson Palacios Wigan £ 12000000 21-01-2009 Carlo Cudicini Chelsea Free 26-01-2009 Pascal Chimbonda Sunderland Signed 26-01-2009 That was the full squad I listed that he had use. Here is where you can see the squad for yourself. Squads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasley14 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 John there is a major difference in quality with the player he did have to what we have now though. Especially the strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 To be honest, a new manager, I'd feel more safe about relegation (depending on who it was) but I do believe we will stay up (just) whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 To be honest, a new manager, I'd feel more safe about relegation (depending on who it was) but I do believe we will stay up (just) whoever. Nows there a damming indictment ! POB (Mr optimistic) ! - thinks we will only stay in the prem by the skin of our teeth under GH If thats not a reason to sack I don't know what is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse.I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. And I think that's the key point. When we were poor a few weeks back we all thought things would be better when we got our injured players back. I agree in that, if anything, its got worse. Team selection and tactics are little short of baffling. OK I can live with Clark at LB, needs must when Warnock is so poor but Gabby out on the left? Albrighton left on the bench to accomodate other out of position selections? The bizarre last five minutes of the Sunderland game with Ashley Young at CB. We also kidded ourselves that once the transfer window opened GH could bring in players. Walker is a decent shout given the LY injury and we then have both Lichaj and him. Bridge, again a decent shout (just) but a really expensive option. Cummings?? Enough said. We are linked to all these other good players but as I have said on a couple of other threads I can't see good young players coming to us when we are likely to be relegated and the manager is standing next to the exit (regardless of what the club says). Regardless of all that the real issue is the fact he seems to have lost so many of the players. I don't know whether MM or any other poster really is ITK but there was talk of six unhappy players prior to GH being appointed. My guess is we have a few more now! Even Pires, his man in the dressing room, is slagging him off in the media. The fact he has lost the players is so obvious from the crap we are being treated to on the pitch each week. The reality is we are really unlikely to bring in any player who is fundamentally going to change our performances under GH. Far better to cut our losses now and a get a manager in who can get the best out of the players we have some of which, lets not forget, are really quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 To be honest, a new manager, I'd feel more safe about relegation (depending on who it was) but I do believe we will stay up (just) whoever. Nows there a damming indictment ! POB (Mr optimistic) ! - thinks we will only stay in the prem by the skin of our teeth under GH If thats not a reason to sack I don't know what is !He's probably right, though. I expect we will scrape home still in the premier league - it would need a spectacularly bad second half to the season to go down. Although it may well be a white knuckle ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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