snowychap Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Did I miss a bit of this Lord Fink story?I don't think so.It looks like you got it spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2015 awesome UKIP woman 'Ukraine isn't even in europe'Not been watching but could she have meant in the EU sense ? No. She was specifically referring to how she felt the crisis in Ukraine was the fault of aggressive EU expansionism and Putin was only understandably trying to protect his sphere of influence in the 'Russian' area. After all, Ukraine isn't even in europe. Clearly meant in a geographical sense. Turns out, she is responsible for writing their manifesto. She looked genuinely perplexed when people gave a nervous laugh.I think she's kind of a bit right for the wrong reason.Yes Ukraine is geographically part of the continnent of yurp, but it's not in NATO, not in the EU, it's people are far from unanimous in wanting to join the EU.It's a corrupt country, with human rights issues and so on. It's also on the border with Russia. The notion that it's fluffy Ukraine good, nasty Putin bad and that it's "our job" to "stand up" to Russia is simplisitic tosh. It's basically nob all to do with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Dodgy pillock. He's called Lord Fink - It couldn't be clearer really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't think anyone thinks the Ukraine is 'good'. But by the same token, if Putin wants to have a little nibble at the eastern borders of Estonia or Latvia or Romania, they were very recently very much Russian Empire states, perhaps that would be nob all to do with us? Up until where on the map? Poland? or Eastern Germany? East Germany was a corrupt non EU state that wasn't in NATO, we should have left 'all that lot' well alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Did I miss a bit of this Lord Fink story? He was on the news the other night stood on some steps somewhere calling out Ed Milliband. Come out here and say that and I'll do you. Or words to that effect. Turns out now he has had a little think and said he was indeed involved in tax avoidance, but only a bit, and anyway, everyone does it. Dodgy pillock. seemed to be one heck of a U-Turn ... but I think Ed would be crazy to repeat his claim outside of the commons either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Isn't this whole "tax avoidance" pissing contest just a massive distraction. Everyone avoids tax. Everyone. As long as the mechanism to do so is legal, why shouldn't people/comapanies avoid tax? Don't I would. I have. I've also illegally avoided paying tax. Anyone who has paid anyone cash in hand to do a job for them has also illegally avoided tax. Instead of bitching about tax avoiders be they personal or corporate why not devote that time to drafting legislation to close the **** loopholes people are using in the first place? Instead of chucking shit at each other via the BBC. Whats the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Everyone avoids tax. Everyone.I'd like to know how I am 'avoiding tax' (to make it clear - I don't think I'm unique). Edited February 13, 2015 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Isn't this whole "tax avoidance" pissing contest just a massive distraction. Everyone avoids tax. Everyone. As long as the mechanism to do so is legal, why shouldn't people/comapanies avoid tax? Don't I would. I have. I've also illegally avoided paying tax. Anyone who has paid anyone cash in hand to do a job for them has also illegally avoided tax. Instead of bitching about tax avoiders be they personal or corporate why not devote that time to drafting legislation to close the **** loopholes people are using in the first place? Instead of chucking shit at each other via the BBC. Whats the problem? as I've said before a lot of the people out in the real world moaning about them there tax evaders are yer builders and plumbers who will give you a quote for £1200 but do it for £1000 cash no questions asked when they do it it's "good on you" but wear a suit and try and avoid your tax and you are the biggest criminal on the planet again I'm speaking in very simplified terms and we are talking different amounts involved for sure , but its our duty to pay as little tax as possible ... heck I sneak through a marathon bar on my expenses every now and then and feel great that I've got one over the system 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Did I miss a bit of this Lord Fink story? He was on the news the other night stood on some steps somewhere calling out Ed Milliband. Come out here and say that and I'll do you. Or words to that effect. Turns out now he has had a little think and said he was indeed involved in tax avoidance, but only a bit, and anyway, everyone does it. Dodgy pillock. What I really hate about this whole thing is the way the media have conflated tax-avoidance with tax-evasion - the former being perfectly legal and the latter being not. This smacks of some mad socialist dystopia where things which are not illegal fall into some sort of catch-all category of 'anti-social' or 'ideologically unsound'. There are plenty of good reasons to keep your money in Switzerland other than tax-avoidance; the main one being the fact that the Swiss maintain the value of their currency, while the UK government are busy debasing the value of the pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Everyone avoids tax. Everyone. I'd like to know how I am 'avoiding tax' (to make it clear - I don't think I'm unique). A bit special maybe but not unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Everyone avoids tax. Everyone. I'd like to know how I am 'avoiding tax' (to make it clear - I don't think I'm unique). I'd like to know too. I'm on PAYE so I don't actually have the option to fiddle my taxes. Eames works in the city, right? Maybe he just means everyone he knows avoids tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Everyone avoids tax. Everyone.I'd like to know how I am 'avoiding tax' (to make it clear - I don't think I'm unique). I'd like to know too. I'm on PAYE so I don't actually have the option to fiddle my taxes. Eames works in the city, right? Maybe he just means everyone he knows avoids tax? Nope. Work for a Local Authority on PAYE....but if you pay tradesmen cash in hand you are avoiding tax. Sell your house for £249,999 and then accept £10k for "appliances" you're avoiding tax. Everyone does it. Do it in jeans holding a tool box you're Robin Hood. Do it in a suit with an account your just a tool. One is illegal, one isn't....and it ain't the one the media talks about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 A bit special maybe but not unique Why thanks. Oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 ...but if you pay tradesmen cash in hand you are avoiding tax. Sell your house for £249,999 and then accept £10k for "appliances" you're avoiding tax.I don't employ tradesmen and don't own a home (I think that may go for a lot of people, too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 ...but if you pay tradesmen cash in hand you are avoiding tax. Sell your house for £249,999 and then accept £10k for "appliances" you're avoiding tax. I don't employ tradesmen and don't own a home (I think that may go for a lot of people, too). Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 13, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't think anyone thinks the Ukraine is 'good'. But by the same token, if Putin wants to have a little nibble at the eastern borders of Estonia or Latvia or Romania, they were very recently very much Russian Empire states, perhaps that would be nob all to do with us? Up until where on the map? Poland? or Eastern Germany? East Germany was a corrupt non EU state that wasn't in NATO, we should have left 'all that lot' well alone. My comment about her being partly right, is more re the way it's portrayed in the media -which is often about how Ukraine is the good guy and Putin the bad guy - it really is often that simplisitc an undertone to it. The kind of narrative we're told by the media and politicians is very simplistic. Take Phillip Hammond's comments about "This man has sent troops across an international border and occupied another country's territory in the 21st century acting like some mid-20th century tyrant." I mean we'd never do that....apart from obviously the repeated instances of us and the US etc. in Afghanistan and Iraq. It's the double standards. And to be clear Ukraine is nothing to do with the UK - a corrupt Gov't of a country half way round the world has an issue in their relationship with their neighbour, Russia and vice versa. Both nations are being arses. yes we should encourage them not to be. And in the event they were to start "nibbling" at NATO countires or EU countries with whom we've signed agreements for mutual assistance and the like, then those agreements should be honoured. But outside that, it's more about strategic interests, and western ideals v Eastern ones. We have no right to require Putin (loathesome as he is) to do what we think is best for our interests - we can and should only try and persuade. there are too many wars and conflicts because of people granstanding for reasons outside the actual root problems. In this instance the root problems appear to be lost amongst what the EU/US would see as Russian expansionism and Russia sees as EU expansionism on their doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 ...again I'm speaking in terms for the very simple... Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 ...again I'm speaking in terms for the very simple... Fixed at the risk of a sense of humour failure I don't get the purpose of your post ... If you don't like my argument then feel free to post some form of rebuttal but changing my post to something I didn't say is a little unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I was going to, but I got in from work at 2am yesterday and was up early. Do forgive me I simply can't be arsed with shredding your post right now. I'm going to have a drink. Good Health Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted February 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2015 Isn't this whole "tax avoidance" pissing contest just a massive distraction. Everyone avoids tax. Everyone. As long as the mechanism to do so is legal, why shouldn't people/comapanies avoid tax? Don't I would. I have. I've also illegally avoided paying tax. Anyone who has paid anyone cash in hand to do a job for them has also illegally avoided tax. Instead of bitching about tax avoiders be they personal or corporate why not devote that time to drafting legislation to close the **** loopholes people are using in the first place? Instead of chucking shit at each other via the BBC. Whats the problem? as I've said before a lot of the people out in the real world moaning about them there tax evaders are yer builders and plumbers who will give you a quote for £1200 but do it for £1000 cash no questions asked when they do it it's "good on you" but wear a suit and try and avoid your tax and you are the biggest criminal on the planet again I'm speaking in very simplified terms and we are talking different amounts involved for sure , but its our duty to pay as little tax as possible ... heck I sneak through a marathon bar on my expenses every now and then and feel great that I've got one over the system If the world was a black and white place I'd agree with you. But there's a case being bandied around today of a millionaire that has self confessed not paid a penny income tax in 24 years and the IR have no plans to prosecute. That is simply not the same league as getting £100 off your plumbers bill. I can't argue that it's not essentially the same crime. But we hunt down people with an unused bedroom and sneak around videoing people on disability that can play golf. We apparently have ten times more people chasing benefit cheats than chasing tax dodgers. It just feels a bit unfair. If we all got done for driving at 35mph but people in Bentleys were allowed to do whatever speed they fancied, it wouldn't make us right, but it wouldn't exactly be fair. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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