drat01 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 But however it is obtained the underlying message still remains re the continued increase in personal debt and the implications that it brings. You can try and deflect as much as you like Eames but the reality is still there across the board that the economic policies of this god awful Gvmt are only working for a select few and typically they are those that are people who donate etc to that party. Osborne like many predicted has been found out and for all his, Cameron;s and Tory party supporters attempts to deflect any examination of these policies more and more people have realized that they are not policies for the better of the country they are policies that are to help out their "own" and are ideologically led to keep long held attacks on certain elements in UK society and things such as the NHS, and public services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 It seems that the Tory party and its members are now looking to Russia and especially Putin to become new "bestest buddies" link When you then start to look at its links with far right groups in the European Parliaments you start to see what drives the current Tory party and its membership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 23, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2012 What this government have done today to education and the way they've moved the goalposts at the last minute is an absolute disgrace, its morally reprehensible. I feel really sorry for those kids getting their results today that have had their grade boundaries shifted at the last minute and now have inferior results to those kids that took the exams in the preceding years, way to go, create a year of failures just to push through a policy that is controversial at best and privatisation of education via the back door (ringing any bells here?) Absolutely disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Couldn't agree more Gareth. Seems these Tory Kanute's are happy to mess/knacker childrens futures, to push through a policy of theirs. T*ssers. Get 'em out. Get Calamity Clegg out too. We're all in it together. Unless you've had your grades fecked by the Tory overlords. Then you're in it with the few thousand who have finished school today with worse grades than their predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If the educational standards that had been progressively lowered were ever to be addressed then how was this to be done without fundamentally disadvantaging those whose exams were subsequently marked at a decent standard? You could argue that those children who had sat the dumbed down exams of the last decade are the one's now at a disadvantage, because employers know that qualifications in the decade leading up to 2012 may as well have been issued by Disney world. That's not to damn those pupils as individuals (it's clearly not their fault), but rather the political ideology of creating a no failure culture around academic qualifications - as damaging to overall belief in the system as it is to the cognitive and social development of children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What this government have done today to education and the way they've moved the goalposts at the last minute is an absolute disgrace, its morally reprehensible. I feel really sorry for those kids getting their results today that have had their grade boundaries shifted at the last minute and now have inferior results to those kids that took the exams in the preceding years, way to go, create a year of failures just to push through a policy that is controversial at best and privatisation of education via the back door (ringing any bells here?) Absolutely disgraceful. It doesn't seem like that big of a deal. The grade is just an attempt to rank students. What your actual grade is doesn't matter as much as how it compares with the other students of that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You could argue that those children who had sat the dumbed down exams of the last decade are the one's now at a disadvantage, because employers know that qualifications in the decade leading up to 2012 may as well have been issued by Disney world. That's not to damn those pupils as individuals (it's clearly not their fault), but rather the political ideology of creating a no failure culture around academic qualifications - as damaging to overall belief in the system as it is to the cognitive and social development of children. I don't think that is really true either. You are exaggerating the situation for effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You could argue that those children who had sat the dumbed down exams of the last decade are the one's now at a disadvantage, because employers know that qualifications in the decade leading up to 2012 may as well have been issued by Disney world. That's not to damn those pupils as individuals (it's clearly not their fault), but rather the political ideology of creating a no failure culture around academic qualifications - as damaging to overall belief in the system as it is to the cognitive and social development of children. I don't think that is really true either. You are exaggerating the situation for effect. Hence the use of "you could argue", however I do think they have been short changed by the education system. As I recall many employers and higher education establishments have also been critical of students with apparently strong GCSE or A Level results for having very poor/terrible literacy, numeracy or critical analysis skills. That isn't good for kids and has, imo, reflected a prevailing political culture that rejected the pursuit of excellence and embraced mediocrity for all - and then gave it an A*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yes, I seem to remember they introduced the A* rating whilst I have been in this country. I guess this is just a shifting things back down by one letter again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some people think it's not about raising standards, restoring comparability, or anything like that, but rather about creating an excuse to privatise more schools. Could Mr Gove be so cynical and spiteful? Surely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some people think it's not about raising standards, restoring comparability, or anything like that, but rather about creating an excuse to privatise more schools. Could Mr Gove be so cynical and spiteful? Surely not. From the third comment under your link: This year’s results show 69.4% of entries earned grades A*-C, compared with 69.8% last year. There is also a fall in the proportion of pupils receiving the top A* and A grades, down to 22.4% from 23.2%. If this is manipulation to enable large scale policy changes then it seems like a pretty crap effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 23, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some people think it's not about raising standards, restoring comparability, or anything like that, but rather about creating an excuse to privatise more schools. Could Mr Gove be so cynical and spiteful? Surely not. From the third comment under your link: This year’s results show 69.4% of entries earned grades A*-C, compared with 69.8% last year. There is also a fall in the proportion of pupils receiving the top A* and A grades, down to 22.4% from 23.2%. If this is manipulation to enable large scale policy changes then it seems like a pretty crap effort. Thats only half the picture, raising the grade boundaries on one hand (by about 2%) then telling schools that they have to achieve a 40% pass rate instead of 35% otherwise they fail, at the last minute, in fact not the last minute after the game was over. You can't set targets then change them after the fact, it simply isn't fair and as a result some kids with the misfortune of being born in the wrong year. And why? Because they want to force through Academies. Its **** with kid lives to enforce policies. Change the exam system by all means, I'm totally in favour of it but don't do it by changing the rules after the fact. Do it so everyone knows what they have to achieve. Bring in a new system and be open about what you have to achieve to get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 If the educational standards that had been progressively lowered were ever to be addressed then how was this to be done without fundamentally disadvantaging those whose exams were subsequently marked at a decent standard? You could argue that those children who had sat the dumbed down exams of the last decade are the one's now at a disadvantage, because employers know that qualifications in the decade leading up to 2012 may as well have been issued by Disney world. That's not to damn those pupils as individuals (it's clearly not their fault), but rather the political ideology of creating a no failure culture around academic qualifications - as damaging to overall belief in the system as it is to the cognitive and social development of children. Spot on. The uninterrupted grade inflation of the last 20 odd years is a national disgrace. When I was at school, kids getting three A Levels at grade A were genuinely the brightest kids in the school and could look forward to going to a top university. As an employer, it gets increasingly harder to work out how bright a young candidate is going to be, because I've seen some right no-hopers with amazing grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 24, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted August 24, 2012 You won't find me disagreeing with any of that Risso, my argument is that the way this has been done, isn't fair on the kids its affected, it isn't fair on the schools who've had the goalposts moved at a time when they cannot do anything about it and the ultimate aim isn't improving education its lining the pockets of some highly dubious individuals/organisations, religious nutters will be running our schools. I'm not even talking about your bog standard CofE/Catholic nutjobs, I'm talking some right oddballs, oh and businesses, who have absolutely no place in schools. Education needs improving, this is neither fair on those affected nor is it going to be effective in raising standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 If the educational standards that had been progressively lowered were ever to be addressed then how was this to be done without fundamentally disadvantaging those whose exams were subsequently marked at a decent standard? You could argue that those children who had sat the dumbed down exams of the last decade are the one's now at a disadvantage, because employers know that qualifications in the decade leading up to 2012 may as well have been issued by Disney world. That's not to damn those pupils as individuals (it's clearly not their fault), but rather the political ideology of creating a no failure culture around academic qualifications - as damaging to overall belief in the system as it is to the cognitive and social development of children. Spot on. The uninterrupted grade inflation of the last 20 odd years is a national disgrace. When I was at school, kids getting three A Levels at grade A were genuinely the brightest kids in the school and could look forward to going to a top university. As an employer, it gets increasingly harder to work out how bright a young candidate is going to be, because I've seen some right no-hopers with amazing grades. It's not a disgrace at all. There are quite a lot of things that you show by that statement 1) resentment that any that follow you have the audacity to get equal or better exam marks than you. 2) Teachers are in some way now less able to obtain better grades 3) Improvements through investment into an education system 4) If an employer decided on recruitment solely based on exam marks, which many do not, then I suggest they are not going about recruitment in the correct way. Even if the marks are taken as you say then how difficult would it be to put on a factor for the perceived easier grades per year or is that a case again of too much effort on the employer part As Gareth said earlier the disgraceful way that Gove and Cameron have pandered to ill thought out views about grades and their desire to be seen to be doing something (with little regard to what exactly they were doing) is the disgrace here. It's funny that with all the preaching that we hear from the Tory party and its supporters about Britain being Idle, when we see kids working hard and getting good rewards the immediate reaction from the Tory's is to question them and try and piss on their parade Scandalous by the Gvmt again, awful that it's supporters cannot see the damage it continues to inflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Maybe the idea from the Tory party and its supporters is a return to the days of CSE's and O Levels where you had a two tier educational reward system and all of the various stigma's and ridiculous anomalies that went with that. This GVmt cannot be trusted on anything it seems. Easily one of the most, and probably THE most incompetent and deceitful Gvmt that this country has had to endure. It seems that the Tory party and its supporters sole answer to any questioning on what they are doing is to try and deflect the questions and mention Labour, the Unions or anyone but themselves. From the piss poor way they have run the economy, to the privatization of the NHS. From the reduction across all areas of front line emergency services through to attacks and major disruptions within the education system. All core areas that are vital for any sort of growth across the whole country. They and their supporters (not just those in parliament) seem more concerned with feathering their own nests at the expense of any one they can. The Thatcher principle on "no such thing as society" is alive and well and kicking the UK public so it seems. Maybe a quick look at what they promised as part of it's (and the Cuckold Lib Dems) manifesto's. You know thing they sort of got elected on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 You won't find me disagreeing with any of that Risso, my argument is that the way this has been done, isn't fair on the kids its affected, it isn't fair on the schools who've had the goalposts moved at a time when they cannot do anything about it and the ultimate aim isn't improving education its lining the pockets of some highly dubious individuals/organisations, religious nutters will be running our schools. I'm not even talking about your bog standard CofE/Catholic nutjobs, I'm talking some right oddballs, oh and businesses, who have absolutely no place in schools. Education needs improving, this is neither fair on those affected nor is it going to be effective in raising standards You're spot on with this. It's not just GCSE results, the goalposts are also getting moved at primary school level also just so more and more of these academies can come in. And like you said people who have no place in education are now in there at the top. The school built with the money from Peter Vardy is a fine example of this. I think it's an absolute disgrace what's happening to education in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Maybe the idea from the Tory party and its supporters is a return to the days of CSE's and O Levels where you had a two tier educational reward system and all of the various stigma's and ridiculous anomalies that went with that. Doing away with Grammar schools has been mooted as possibly the biggest inhibitor to social mobility of the last 50 years. The vehicle that gave poor kids with academic ability the chance to compete for top university places (and the jobs that follow them) was destroyed. For example, the last PM not to come from a background of private education was John Major. There won't be another one any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Risso works for one of the big 4 accountancy outfits- I reckon they know a bit aboit recruitment. As to the grade bands 40% is about right. It reflects the minimum at undergraduate level- it was 50% on the LPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 . They and their supporters (not just those in parliament) seem more concerned with feathering their own nests at the expense of any one they canthis veiled allegation again, want to give some examples of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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