Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Risso]

 

Some truly truly shocking statistics in this report on food banks.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27032642

An end of year report you wouldn't want to let your mum see. A damning indictment of this governments incompetence, inability and immorality heading into its final year.

Disgraceful.

 

It's just the Tory way.  They like to get the the poor,  sick or people caring for others to live life on the edge of a cliff,  better to keep them thinking "Where's my next meal" than anything else.  This is the price you pay for not  being one of "Them"

 

To go to a food bank to get food for your kids must be truly heartbreaking.  It must amuse Tory supporters immensely when they go to sleep at night that there are toddlers around the country crying them selves to sleep from hunger.  This is the Tory supporters ideal world,  crying and distraught poor children.    

 

 

Do you honestly believe that guff?

[blandy]

At least some of it is clearly right, Risso.

 

 

Food bank manager Hugh McNeil is a softly spoken churchgoer, and doesn’t look the tubthumping political type. But, when asked about the impact of the Government’s welfare reforms, he struggles to contain his fury. “Compassion has disappeared out of the welfare state,” he says. “There’s none any more. The way these benefits are being administered is just so punitive and nobody seems to be thinking about the children affected either.”...

 

Gavin Kibble, the food bank’s operations director, is adamant that welfare reforms are responsible for much of the rise in need. “We’re seeing a lot of people coming through the food bank because of benefit sanctions. Around 43 per cent of our cases relate to a DWP issue, whether that’s a benefit change or sanctions. We could chop in half the cases we needed to help with if DWP sorted things out.”

I personally don't think most tory supporters think it's amusing or any such thing, but I do think that the Gov't and the tories in particular and IDS in very particular are just incompetent and haven't got an effing clue, and that as a consequence they create and worsen misery.

I think they turn a blind eye to it at best, and at their worst rather revel in the downtreading of people they see as "scroungers". I also think that as with followers of any party, there will be some who enjoy  the excesses of their party. This being one instance. There are plenty of comments on the right wing paper's sites to support this assertion.

 

The whole article linked, rather than just the extracts paints a disturbing and horrific picture, frankly. Why would anyone intentionally be so deliberately cruel?

 

 

[Kingfisher]

So what you are saying is using the system introduced by labour, that have been in place for nearly a decade, it's good news.

Labour changing the stats to suit themselves

Whether Red, Blue or Yellow Tory. Our elected politicians have and are bullshitting us. Time for a change.

[Xela]

 

Some truly truly shocking statistics in this report on food banks.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27032642

An end of year report you wouldn't want to let your mum see. A damning indictment of this governments incompetence, inability and immorality heading into its final year.

Disgraceful.

 

It's just the Tory way.  They like to get the the poor,  sick or people caring for others to live life on the edge of a cliff,  better to keep them thinking "Where's my next meal" than anything else.  This is the price you pay for not  being one of "Them"

 

To go to a food bank to get food for your kids must be truly heartbreaking.  It must amuse Tory supporters immensely when they go to sleep at night that there are toddlers around the country crying them selves to sleep from hunger.  This is the Tory supporters ideal world,  crying and distraught poor children.    

 

 

Yes, i'm sure all Tories love the thought of kids starving to death. If they were more clever they could round up the starving children and throw them onto the fire as fuel for their stately homes, which they all reside in. 

[Risso]

At least some of it is clearly right, Risso.

 

 

 

 

Food bank manager Hugh McNeil is a softly spoken churchgoer, and doesn’t look the tubthumping political type. But, when asked about the impact of the Government’s welfare reforms, he struggles to contain his fury. “Compassion has disappeared out of the welfare state,” he says. “There’s none any more. The way these benefits are being administered is just so punitive and nobody seems to be thinking about the children affected either.”...

 

Gavin Kibble, the food bank’s operations director, is adamant that welfare reforms are responsible for much of the rise in need. “We’re seeing a lot of people coming through the food bank because of benefit sanctions. Around 43 per cent of our cases relate to a DWP issue, whether that’s a benefit change or sanctions. We could chop in half the cases we needed to help with if DWP sorted things out.”

I personally don't think most tory supporters think it's amusing or any such thing, but I do think that the Gov't and the tories in particular and IDS in very particular are just incompetent and haven't got an effing clue, and that as a consequence they create and worsen misery.

I think they turn a blind eye to it at best, and at their worst rather revel in the downtreading of people they see as "scroungers". I also think that as with followers of any party, there will be some who enjoy  the excesses of their party. This being one instance. There are plenty of comments on the right wing paper's sites to support this assertion.

 

The whole article linked, rather than just the extracts paints a disturbing and horrific picture, frankly. Why would anyone intentionally be so deliberately cruel?

 

 

"Sitting in a cafe behind the church, he is handed five bursting carrier bags of food, including fresh vegetables, tins, pasta and bread. His hands shake as he packs the heavy tins into his rucksack and prepares for a wobbly cycle home with the plastic bags on his handlebars."

 

So much for The "Independent".

[blandy]

? Newspaper journo reports what they observe. A paper that has columnists from all political views. Play the ball, not the man.

[Risso]

? Newspaper journo reports what they observe. A paper that has columnists from all political views. Play the ball, not the man.

 

Sorry, not having that.  It's as partisan a bit of writing as I've seen in a long time, with the writer going out of his way to prove he's the new Dickens reporting on workhouse conditions.  It's what political debate in this country has come to though, with everything reduced to Daily Mail or The Mirror articles, or the childish Facebook style memes that peterms is so fond of.  So, has everyone of those million food bank parcels gone to a penniless family with absolutely no alternative?  Or are people just using them because they're there?  I'd honestly like to know, but finding out anything that isn't drenched in political rhetoric from either side is impossible these days.  Not everybody on benefits is a scrounger, but not everybody using foodbanks is a penniless, starving mother of 6 living in a shoebox on the M6 either.

[markavfc40]

 

At least some of it is clearly right, Risso.

 

 

 

 

Food bank manager Hugh McNeil is a softly spoken churchgoer, and doesn’t look the tubthumping political type. But, when asked about the impact of the Government’s welfare reforms, he struggles to contain his fury. “Compassion has disappeared out of the welfare state,” he says. “There’s none any more. The way these benefits are being administered is just so punitive and nobody seems to be thinking about the children affected either.”...

 

Gavin Kibble, the food bank’s operations director, is adamant that welfare reforms are responsible for much of the rise in need. “We’re seeing a lot of people coming through the food bank because of benefit sanctions. Around 43 per cent of our cases relate to a DWP issue, whether that’s a benefit change or sanctions. We could chop in half the cases we needed to help with if DWP sorted things out.”

I personally don't think most tory supporters think it's amusing or any such thing, but I do think that the Gov't and the tories in particular and IDS in very particular are just incompetent and haven't got an effing clue, and that as a consequence they create and worsen misery.

I think they turn a blind eye to it at best, and at their worst rather revel in the downtreading of people they see as "scroungers". I also think that as with followers of any party, there will be some who enjoy  the excesses of their party. This being one instance. There are plenty of comments on the right wing paper's sites to support this assertion.

 

The whole article linked, rather than just the extracts paints a disturbing and horrific picture, frankly. Why would anyone intentionally be so deliberately cruel?

 

 

"Sitting in a cafe behind the church, he is handed five bursting carrier bags of food, including fresh vegetables, tins, pasta and bread. His hands shake as he packs the heavy tins into his rucksack and prepares for a wobbly cycle home with the plastic bags on his handlebars."

 

So much for The "Independent".

 

 

I find it genuinely a little sad that someone could read that article and that is the comment that comes into their head.

Of course not all people using food banks are penniless and desperate. Lets be generous and say that 20%, I'd imagine its way less, of them don't really need to be using them. That would still leave a massive issue. One that should leave those in Government imposing measures that massively contribute hanging their heads in shame. It won't though which says it all.

Edited April 16, 2014 by markavfc40

[blandy]

 

? Newspaper journo reports what they observe. A paper that has columnists from all political views. Play the ball, not the man.

 

Sorry, not having that.  It's as partisan a bit of writing as I've seen in a long time, with the writer going out of his way to prove he's the new Dickens reporting on workhouse conditions.  It's what political debate in this country has come to though, with everything reduced to Daily Mail or The Mirror articles, or the childish Facebook style memes that peterms is so fond of.  So, has everyone of those million food bank parcels gone to a penniless family with absolutely no alternative?  Or are people just using them because they're there?  I'd honestly like to know, but finding out anything that isn't drenched in political rhetoric from either side is impossible these days.  Not everybody on benefits is a scrounger, but not everybody using foodbanks is a penniless, starving mother of 6 living in a shoebox on the M6 either.

 

the writer was a "she", but the article was based on a visit to a foodbank. Someone actually reporting what they see. Sure they went to the most foodbank dependent City in the UK, but the problem is clearly an undeniably real. More people than ever before are relying on foodbanks and it's co-incident with all the benefits changes.

More than 900,000 people in the past year, an increase of 163 per cent, according to figures from the biggest food bank charity.

People will always take advantage, I suppose, but I feel that the percentage will be broadly consistent. The numbers are evidence in themselves of a problem. If the politicians went to see for themselves, then it may change policy.

The article might be seen as laying it on or whatever by yourself, and fair enough if you do, each to their own. The same figures are in the Heil

"The food poverty scandal that shames Britain: Nearly 1m people rely on handouts to eat – and benefit reforms may be to blame"

it says. Bloody liberal do-gooding, emotional  Daily Mail

[Kingfisher]

I find the accusation that people may be milking food banks to an extent that we need to call into question the extent of the problem a really hideous one. It's a real problem, there are people in work really struggling out there as more and more wages are effectively becoming impossible to live on. Benefit sanctions are increasing. The time people must wait for benefits is increasing. The bedroom tax has been a major factor. The problems we face are very real and getting worse. The government are steering us onto the rocks.

[MakemineVanilla]

It seems apparent that both sides of the political spectrum, if indeed such thing can be said to exist these days, are exploiting the poor for their own political gain.

 

The Tories are guilty of lowering benefits but Labour are doing everything possible to stigmatise those who use food banks, by claiming that it is shameful.

 

This is possibly even more damaging than what the Tories have been doing because at least benefits can be increased, where the permanent stigmatisation of food banks, will cut people off from a legitimate means of supplementing their benefits.

 

Labour also have another problem, in that while they are claiming that those who use to food banks are stigmatised, they are also attacking the government's trial, of paying rent to claimants rather than directly to landlords. They claim that it does not work because the recipients tend to spend the money meant for rent on other stuff and end up in arrears.

 

So they are simultaneously claiming that the poor are too irresponsible to be expected to pay their own rent, but it is a denial of the poor's agency for them to get food from a food bank, rather than being given extra money to purchase it themselves.

 

It seems highly likely, that should Labour win an election, they will cease to care about the poor, and will just resume the policies which did the poor little good, up to 2010. 

 

One thing is certainly true, over 100k people in Berlin use food banks, where benefits are much higher, and no doubt there are more than a million people across Germany who use food banks. So the UK is not unique and neither is the present government. It just suits the politics industry to pretend that they are to create the churn of political stories they feed on, and distracts us from more important issues which are not open to discussion.

 

So, as ever, some minority is being exploited for political gain (it is usually the pensioners) and who will be forgotten ten minutes after the next government is formed.

[Xann]

More people than ever before are relying on foodbanks

 

Interesting listening to Jeremy Hunt's thoughts on the importance of the voluntary sector.

 

These volunteers are going to be very tired.

[chrisp65]

 

? Newspaper journo reports what they observe. A paper that has columnists from all political views. Play the ball, not the man.

 

Sorry, not having that.  It's as partisan a bit of writing as I've seen in a long time, with the writer going out of his way to prove he's the new Dickens reporting on workhouse conditions.  It's what political debate in this country has come to though, with everything reduced to Daily Mail or The Mirror articles, or the childish Facebook style memes that peterms is so fond of.  So, has everyone of those million food bank parcels gone to a penniless family with absolutely no alternative?  Or are people just using them because they're there?  I'd honestly like to know, but finding out anything that isn't drenched in political rhetoric from either side is impossible these days.  Not everybody on benefits is a scrounger, but not everybody using foodbanks is a penniless, starving mother of 6 living in a shoebox on the M6 either.

 

 

if you'd honestly like to know then can I suggest you find a local food bank and arrange to go along for a couple of hours / half day - most would welcome an observer there to learn

 

I tried it for a very short while but frankly couldn't handle seeing mums and dads that had to be cajoled into attending, that had really needed the supplies but saw walking through the door as a disgusting failure and an admittance of being a sponger, a beggar, a shit on society's carpet. Many would plead that somebody else attend for them and bring them supplies to the house or flat. Not through laziness or the presumption there is always somebody there to cater for you. But because they couldn't face going in there and seeing the well meaning pensioners doling out soap and tinned soup.

 

But be prepared to see a mix of people that need to get themselves organised, people that think they should have their arse wiped AND lots of people crying with the perceived shame of being so down on their fortunes in this society that they are reduced to asking for hand outs so they have toothpaste and toilet paper for their children

 

even if that mix of the types of people above is equal thirds, that's horrible

even if some foodbanks have been set up by do gooders looking for a cause, that's horrible

even if some foodbanks have been set up by people with a political agenda, that's horrible

 

it's also a reflection on all organised established politics in this country and it won't be changing any time soon

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

? Newspaper journo reports what they observe. A paper that has columnists from all political views. Play the ball, not the man.

 

Sorry, not having that.  It's as partisan a bit of writing as I've seen in a long time, with the writer going out of his way to prove he's the new Dickens reporting on workhouse conditions.  It's what political debate in this country has come to though, with everything reduced to Daily Mail or The Mirror articles, or the childish Facebook style memes that peterms is so fond of.  So, has everyone of those million food bank parcels gone to a penniless family with absolutely no alternative?  Or are people just using them because they're there?  I'd honestly like to know, but finding out anything that isn't drenched in political rhetoric from either side is impossible these days.  Not everybody on benefits is a scrounger, but not everybody using foodbanks is a penniless, starving mother of 6 living in a shoebox on the M6 either.

 

 

if you'd honestly like to know then can I suggest you find a local food bank and arrange to go along for a couple of hours / half day - most would welcome an observer there to learn

 

I tried it for a very short while but frankly couldn't handle seeing mums and dads that had to be cajoled into attending, that had really needed the supplies but saw walking through the door as a disgusting failure and an admittance of being a sponger, a beggar, a shit on society's carpet. Many would plead that somebody else attend for them and bring them supplies to the house or flat. Not through laziness or the presumption there is always somebody there to cater for you. But because they couldn't face going in there and seeing the well meaning pensioners doling out soap and tinned soup.

 

 

 

This is the sort of thing I object to.

 

This is a replay of the poverty tourism indulged in by Victorian gentlefolk, as they took the whole family, all dressed up smartly, to gawp at the poor, and enjoy feeling sorry for them and wonder at their fecklessness and their own virtues.

 

If it is so shameful and people feel so degraded, why on earth would they want someone to witness that shame?

 

It is even possible that the willingness to exhibit shame is a requirement to filter out the less needy, which, let's face it, is the preferred method of the state for discouraging claimants.

 

But it has to be noted that the shame has been largely removed for certain classes, by adding an element of secrecy by paying benefits via tax-credits - no humiliating queues for them.

 

I can't remember who offered the definition of sentimentality, as emotion without cost, but gawping at the poor for the pleasure of feeling sorry for them and angry at the government, is exploitation.

 

Benefits are set at survival level (even under Labour) and require fine budgeting which a lot of people find impossible (and that's the idea).

 

Food banks are absolutely necessary when people's budgets go wrong, which they inevitably will. 

 

The need for food banks will not go away should Labour get voted in and nor should they.

 

This exploitation of the poor for political ends, prompts the question as to who stands to gain the most from a Labour victory, whose leader is accused of never meeting 'ordinary people' (a euphemism for the working class), and the answer is Labour's middle-class client state, who were the main recipients of New Labour's largesse, in the form of massive investment and pay-rises for the elite employees of the NHS and Education.

 

I would say that it is these people who stand to gain the most from a new Labour government and are exploiting the poor to make their moral case for it.

 

But they never cared about the massive increase in inequality under Labour, and I don't really believe that they care much now.  

 

Using other people's shame as political currency is vile.

[Xann]

If it is so shameful and people feel so degraded, why on earth would they want someone to witness that shame?

 

Er, so something might be done about it.

 

Not everyone's a gawker by nature, believe it or not some people actually have some empathy.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

If it is so shameful and people feel so degraded, why on earth would they want someone to witness that shame?

 

Er, so something might be done about it.

 

 

 

Like what?

 

The UK electorate consistently vote in governments who will implement systems that increase inequality and poverty; the poor are not going to go away.

 

I don't see the introduction of American-style food stamps (paid to 40m Americans) as a better solution.

 

I don't see any prospect of there ever being no necessity for food banks.

 

It seems likely that the reason people are uncomfortable with food banks is not because people care for the poor, but because their existence reveals the nature of our greed-driven society, which we chose to create.

 

When it comes to the poor we either stigmatise them to motivate the low-skilled to take rotten low-paid jobs, or we try and keep them as our guilty secret by moving them away from our shiny city-centres to sink-estates, where we can pretend they don't exist.

 

We import cheap labour because we have given up on the poor.

 

This is true of all parties.

[Xann]

Like what?

 

Like you say, not voting for the parties that are comfortable with the status quo, or perhaps even taking up an active interest in politics.

 

We've all seen poverty on the telly since we were kids, and have been quite desensitized to much of the suffering in the world, but seeing someone that lives in the same neighbourhood or town, or whose kids go to the same school as yours struggling with poverty should be a real wake up call.

 

If it isn't, then we're lost.

[Kingfisher]

Caroline Lucas has been found not guilty.

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2014/04/17/caroline-lucas-not-guilty-of-wilful-obstruction/28943?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

One of the few working for us.

[Risso]

One of the Coventry based food banks was swamped with requests from a few families from Eastern Europe (read that in the Graun by the way, not The Fail).  I'm not even remotely a UKIP supporter, but it's worth asking the question how many more people would be in jobs in the UK if 100,000's of people from the accession states hadn't flooded over.

[Kingfisher]

If you're in a job and using food banks you're probably on a piss poor wage.

Raise the minimum wage to £7.50 and make the jobs viable to British people rather than poor desperate foreigners. It will take a lot of people out of food poverty too.

Win win.

Edit win win except for the poor foreigners who will need to go elsewhere to find work.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Kingfisher