PaulC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 How boring was the end of the South Africa v India test? 3 overs to go on day 5, South Africa need 16 runs, India need 3 wickets, all the makings of a classic and Philander and Steyn block it out for the draw. What a disgrace. I stayed up to watch it for nothing. I'd be livid if Australia did that. Couldn't understand it either. Ok if they had lost another wicket but they fell only 8 runs short. They would have created history. Its not like Steyn because he's a very positive player. They were obviously under orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Thats harsh I think his reasons are very honest. He's had his injury problems and hes been struggling for some time and if he can't bowl,a lot of overs at max then hes not a lot of use to England. his comments about comparing losing the Ashes to rape and then his timing were just childish and selfish. His cheeky chap character has been found out and he seems a vile character. didnt he threaten a Sri Lankan player couple years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted December 23, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 23, 2013 Meh, I've said to my mates after practically every Villa game this season that we got raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Thats harsh I think his reasons are very honest. He's had his injury problems and hes been struggling for some time and if he can't bowl,a lot of overs at max then hes not a lot of use to England. his comments about comparing losing the Ashes to rape and then his timing were just childish and selfish. His cheeky chap character has been found out and he seems a vile character. didnt he threaten a Sri Lankan player couple years back You don't know him nor do I but from what I have heard from other players on the county circuit he's a nice person. He carried on a year more than he intended. If he knows he can only bowl at 75% then isn't it honest to get out now and give somebody else a chance. The most important thing to ask is who can replace him. He's the best spinner we have had since Jim Laker in the 50s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 WHAT !! Better than Ashley ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Don't you think so Veloman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 In all honesty he(Swann) probably was; haven't looked up any stats but. for the sake of argument, I wonder where Underwood figured ? Either way Swann will be a big loss; I think Monty has a nice action but perhaps not as attacking as Swann and fields like me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Deadly was unplayable on a drying wicket in the days of uncovered wickets but he was more like Giles a left arm seamer converted into a spinner. What Spinners have we had since Underwood. Emberry, Edmonds, Croft, Tufnell. Anybody else of note i have missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Swann's timing may be questionable - that he was an excellent finger spinner in an era when people thought finger spinners were well on the way out (unless you're a left armer bowling to KP/England as a whole) isn't. He often span the ball a long way, he often took wickets in his first over/to break a partnership and he was the seventh (?) highest wicket taker for England. Regardless of whether you think he's a decent bloke or whether he should have gone now, he should be remembered for being a sodding good test match bowler. If we get someone nearly as good and reliable in the next decade then we'll be doing well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Kallis retiring. a proper cricketing legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Kallis ! What a superb player - a sort of a poor man's Ricky Clarke ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 When people talk of the great all rounders, Kapil Dev, Sobers, Botham, etc spring to mind. I think you can put Kallis at the top of the list now. A remarkable career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 At last England show a bit of fight. Too little, too late, but a bit of fire in the belly! I do wonder if the Aussies would have played some of the shots they did, if they'd not already wrapped the series mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) When people talk of the great all rounders, Kapil Dev, Sobers, Botham, etc spring to mind. I think you can put Kallis at the top of the list now. A remarkable career. Yep Kapil Dev and Botham were bowling allrounders. Sobers and Kallis batting allrounders. I wouldn't rate him as high as Sobers. Sobers was an amazing talent. Sobers averaged 57.78 with the bat at a time they played on uncovered wickets. He played a much more attacking entertaining style as well. Kallis is an accumalator of runs and not rated as good as Sachin or Lara whearas in many peoples eyes Sobers is the greatest windies batsman of all time. Probably the greatest left handed batsman ever. Probably 2nd only to Bradman as the greatest batsman of alltime Sobers bowled left arm seam and spin and his bowling record compares favourably to Kallis. Their stats are close but talent wise miles apart. Edited December 27, 2013 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 At last England show a bit of fight. Too little, too late, but a bit of fire in the belly! I do wonder if the Aussies would have played some of the shots they did, if they'd not already wrapped the series mind! Credit to England but the way warner batted set the tone. It was very haphazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 England finally show some guts and courage but all too little and too late. Our batting is still a huge problem though and Cook, Root, Carberry and Bairstow could all do with getting some runs in the second innings. I'm aware that Bairstow is playing in his first game of the series but his batting was pretty shite in the home ashes series aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 When people talk of the great all rounders, Kapil Dev, Sobers, Botham, etc spring to mind. I think you can put Kallis at the top of the list now. A remarkable career. Yep Kapil Dev and Botham were bowling allrounders. Sobers and Kallis batting allrounders. I wouldn't rate him as high as Sobers. Sobers was an amazing talent. Sobers averaged 57.78 with the bat at a time they played on uncovered wickets. He played a much more attacking entertaining style as well. Kallis is an accumalator of runs and not rated as good as Sachin or Lara whearas in many peoples eyes Sobers is the greatest windies batsman of all time. Probably the greatest left handed batsman ever. Probably 2nd only to Bradman as the greatest batsman of alltime Sobers bowled left arm seam and spin and his bowling record compares favourably to Kallis. Their stats are close but talent wise miles apart. I think Viv Richards would rank as the best Windies batsman of all time but i agree with the rest of your view on Sobers. Kallis always had the reputation of being a greedy player and more interested in his own average and performance rather than the best interests of the team. I don't know how true that was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 When people talk of the great all rounders, Kapil Dev, Sobers, Botham, etc spring to mind. I think you can put Kallis at the top of the list now. A remarkable career. Yep Kapil Dev and Botham were bowling allrounders. Sobers and Kallis batting allrounders. I wouldn't rate him as high as Sobers. Sobers was an amazing talent. Sobers averaged 57.78 with the bat at a time they played on uncovered wickets. He played a much more attacking entertaining style as well. Kallis is an accumalator of runs and not rated as good as Sachin or Lara whearas in many peoples eyes Sobers is the greatest windies batsman of all time. Probably the greatest left handed batsman ever. Probably 2nd only to Bradman as the greatest batsman of alltime Sobers bowled left arm seam and spin and his bowling record compares favourably to Kallis. Their stats are close but talent wise miles apart. I'm not old enough to have seen Sobers play, but I fully respect that he's considered the greatest, and I'd not argue against that. Especially having been to Barbados, and heard in great length how good he was from the locals. As such, I'll happily edit my statement to read, Kallis is the best all rounder I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) I think Viv Richards would rank as the best Windies batsman of all time but i agree with the rest of your view on Sobers. Kallis always had the reputation of being a greedy player and more interested in his own average and performance rather than the best interests of the team. I don't know how true that was? Well its between Sobers, Richards and Lara and i think its a pretty close run thing. Too young to see Sobers live but saw Richards and Lara at edgbaston many times. Richards was so intimidating to bowl to and Lara was a true genius. Its a close thing between the three of them. I'd just put Sobers ahead of Richards on the strength of his batting test batting average. Richards didn't score too many double hundreds or big hundreds. He gave it away when he got to a 100. Only barely averaged 50 in test cricket so would probably put both Lara and Sobers ahead of him. I'm not old enough to have seen Sobers play, but I fully respect that he's considered the greatest, and I'd not argue against that. Especially having been to Barbados, and heard in great length how good he was from the locals. As such, I'll happily edit my statement to read, Kallis is the best all rounder I've ever seen. Yes I agree. Kallis the best allrounder in the last 40 years. Trouble with Kallis he's not very eye catching like other greats. He's a great batsman in his own right but not looked upon favourable compared to Tendulkar and Lara Edited December 27, 2013 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 This side really becoming a national embarrassment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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