Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #5 - Leaders Debate Two

[Reality]

The economy will fail to grow sufficiently if immigrants like Eastern Europeans continue to send money home. In 2007 alone they took over £1bn out of the economy.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23402160-polish-immigrants-take-1bn-out-of-the-uk-economy.do

There needs to be more restrictions placed the on the Labour market for immigrants. Jobs should firstly go to those people here, who want a job and need a job.

[Chindie]

Having read that transcript I feel somewhat sorry for him.

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest. Like Drat I read that she appeared to be blaming immigration for claimants and Britain aparently going down the pan.

[avfc89]

Having read that transcript I feel somewhat sorry for him.

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest. Like Drat I read that she appeared to be blaming immigration for claimants and Britain aparently going down the pan.

Yes, I agree she is ill-informed, but she isn't a bigot.

[PauloBarnesi]

Having read that transcript I feel somewhat sorry for him.

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest. Like Drat I read that she appeared to be blaming immigration for claimants and Britain aparently going down the pan.

I agree some people will read it that way, but huge number of people aren’t.

[drat01]

The economy will fail to grow sufficiently if immigrants like Eastern Europeans continue to send money home. In 2007 alone they took over £1bn out of the economy.

Ahem Belize? Tax Havens?

[Risso]

The trouble with people branding her a "bigot" is that that's playing straight into the hands of the BNP. Being concerned about immigration isn't necessarily a sign of being bigoted (although of course, it is sometimes) but the main stream parties treating it as such is what's giving the BNP their recent rise in popularity.

[snowychap]

The economy will fail to grow sufficiently if immigrants like Eastern Europeans continue to send money home. In 2007 alone they took over £1bn out of the economy.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23402160-polish-immigrants-take-1bn-out-of-the-uk-economy.do

There needs to be more restrictions placed the on the Labour market for immigrants. Jobs should firstly go to those people here, who want a job and need a job.

I would be very surprised indeed if the output of workers equated to their 'take home' pay (i.e. their contribution to GDP would likely have far outweighed that which they supposedly 'siphoned out' of the UK economy).

What next, some article complaining that savers are being irresponsible (well they are if the whole foundation of one's economic golden age is excessive consumerism but that's a different problem)?

[Chindie]

Even if they are sending money back home surely you'd need to look at how much they've net added to the economy? My understanding in the time following the ascension of the Eastern European countries to the EU is that the countries allowing them free movement, without restriction, saw the greatest economic gains. Ireland could trace a quarter of it's economic growth one year to migrant labour IIRC.

[Richard]

A lot of people will have sympathy for what she has said. A lot of core Labour support will. Brown has effectively called them all bigots

[JulieB]

It has and I'm a complete agnostic where politics is concerned!

You're unsure if we'll ever have knowledge over anything to do with politics?

That's a pretty odd stance to have!

I'm a woman, so I don't have to be totally logical. It makes sense to me...

That woman wasn't a bigot, what a load of rubbish. I've just watched it now.

Northerners.....just say it like it is! Especially from Rochdale neck of the woods.

I agree totally with her about the tax on Pensions particularly in the case of women who are eligible for OAP at 60 but are not granted the increased age allowance until they are 65, so the ones who have worked & paid all their stamps and in receipt of the earnings related part of State Pension are forced to pay tax.

And as many have some savings because they've been frugal this pushes them over the eligibility for Pension credit.

Just to make life more interesting the State Pension can't be taxed so instead they are forced to submit a self assessment form and pay the tax in lump sums each year & employ the services of an Accountant, if they can't understand it all themselves.

Or there again if they qualify for income from an occupational or private pension, this is ridiculously taxed to compensate for the shortfall between the personal allowance and the tax they owe, even just on their state pension.

It really is a complicated farce!

[avfc89]

The trouble with people branding her a "bigot" is that that's playing straight into the hands of the BNP. Being concerned about immigration isn't necessarily a sign of being bigoted (although of course, it is sometimes) but the main stream parties treating it as such is what's giving the BNP their recent rise in popularity.

I agree with you; I live around Rochdale and Oldham, and the people speak like that about immigrants, she isn't a bigot:lol:. The council are to blame for this problem IMO.

[Reality]

The government have mislead people on immigration for quite sometime, stating that it helps the economy. There are many conflicting reports.

A Parliamentary report into the matter believed otherwise back in 2008.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3656171.ece

[Richard]

Having read that transcript I feel somewhat sorry for him.

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest. Like Drat I read that she appeared to be blaming immigration for claimants and Britain aparently going down the pan.

Yes, I agree she is ill-informed, but she isn't a bigot.

Brown confirmed during the BBC 2 interview that "I dont think she is that". So even he is now saying she isn't a bigot. Yet he is being defended on the basis that she is a bigot?

[drat01]

The trouble with people branding her a "bigot" is that that's playing straight into the hands of the BNP. Being concerned about immigration isn't necessarily a sign of being bigoted (although of course, it is sometimes) but the main stream parties treating it as such is what's giving the BNP their recent rise in popularity.

Being concerned is not the same as then blaming a particular group of legal immigrants for false claims which is exactly how this woman came across.

Subsequent chats over a cup of tea have seemingly explained that is not what she meant, but at that time it did not come across like that.

Are people now just looking to use the B word as the issue rather than the whole policy and actions? Again style rather than policy?

Looking at the TV pictures this afternoon perfectly illustrated the UK today, with Kay Burley trying her best to give some informed view on sky news (failing to do anything other than show what a complete and utter bimbo she is) while the pictures on the TV showed this mass of media people outside the womans house looking at various bodyguards and her new UPVC front door.

Immigration / Emigration are issues that should be up for debate and policy scrutinised. will it happen?

[Chindie]

I don't think anyone aside from Drat has said she's a bigot. She's flown close to it I think. Might have been better to say she's ill-informed. Still you don't say things like that when you're flustered.

...shit I'm getting involved again.

[JulieB]

The best bit is on the 2nd interview on the Beeb site - when her mobile rings & she completely ignores the reporters and answers it...live on TV!

Just Brilliant!

[drat01]

I don't think anyone aside from Drat has said she's a bigot. She's flown close to it I think. Might have been better to say she's ill-informed. Still you don't say things like that when you're flustered.

...shit I'm getting involved again.

I said she was a bigot based on exactly what I heard / read at the time.

Now if many are going out of their way to explain that she didn't mean what she said, then fairy snuff, but as the transcript shows her words were exactly the tone of those who use the immigration / East Europeans as the basis for their bigotted views.

Old GB has been round had a cup of tea, understood that she meant something else it seems and all is well - except for those who want to continue a silly fight.

Unless of course she did mean what she said ...........

[snowychap]

The government have mislead people on immigration for quite sometime, stating that it helps the economy. There are many conflicting reports.

If the reports are 'conflicting' then that might suggest that the government may not have misled people. They may have misled them but as the reports are 'conflicting', I don't think there is conclusive evidence to support your initial claim.

[PauloBarnesi]

except for those who want to continue a silly fight.

And who do you mean?

[PauloBarnesi]

In quotes: Reaction to Brown's 'bigoted' comment

Gordon Brown has been caught describing a voter, 65-year-old Gillian Duffy, as a "bigoted woman". Here are some of the key reactions.

GILLIAN DUFFY

He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that?

GORDON BROWN

I am mortified by what has happened. I have given her my sincere apologies. I misunderstood what she said. She has accepted that there was a misunderstanding and she has accepted my apology. If you like, I am a penitent sinner.

PRIME MINISTER'S SPOKESMAN

He was letting off steam in the car after a difficult conversation. But this is exactly the sort of conversation that is important in an election campaign and which he will continue to have with voters.

GEORGE OSBORNE, SHADOW CHANCELLOR

We have found out the prime minister's internal thoughts... and I think they speak for themselves and the prime minister has got a lot of explaining to do. What people will see is the contrast between what he was saying publicly and what he was saying privately.

NICK CLEGG, LIB DEMS LEADER

Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean you should insult them... whatever people say, you should try and treat them with the respect they deserve.

LORD MANDELSON, BUSINESS SECRETARY

What will upset Gordon is the hurt caused to her. It's not in his nature to want to hurt people like that.

NICK ROBINSON, BBC POLITICAL EDITOR

It highlights a huge gap between the prime minister's public and his private demeanours… the leader of the Labour Party has insulted one of the very type of voter it's so vital for his party to hang on to - older, white and traditional Labour.

LANCE PRICE, FORMER DOWNING STREET SPIN DOCTOR

It will be endlessly talked about. It will be described as a gaffe and it was a gaffe.

PETER KELLNER, POLLING ORGANISATION YOUGOV

Those people who are fans of Gordon Brown will sympathise with him, those who don't like him will consider it a very bad thing. The question is the reaction of those in the middle... It may be that people will be absolutely appalled... But it may be that a lot of people will say he is a human, there is a lot of stress, isn't he allowed to say one thing to her in person, and then another in private?

IVOR GABER, POLITICAL ANALYST, CITY UNIVERSITY, LONDON

People know that Brown is no angel, and though this won't do him any good, it's not certain how his will play out.

GILLIAN DUFFY'S NIECE

It's disgraceful. He's just shown his true colours. He's always trying to pretend to be so nice and in touch with the people but he's obviously not. I can see it anyway. I don't like the man, to be honest.

In quotes