drat01 Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 His mistake is apologising to her - he was being honest something you see rarely in any politician - the woman is a bigot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 His mistake is apologising to her - he was being honest something you see rarely in any politician - the woman is a bigot Come on Ian you can feel sorry for Brown, but his mistake is being caught saying it. As for honesty, we know the lot of them are all dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 What happened before the clip on the 4 website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricardomeister Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Here Feel a little sorry for Brown to be honest. Every politician (and sports commentator) makes inappropriate comments from time to time. Only the unlucky few get caught, and for some it makes them even more popular Kenny Everett says lets bomb the Russkies, kick Michael Foot’s stick away... I don't see it as an issue at all..it was a private comment that just happened to appear on tape. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron made a few disparaging comments in private about the guy with the disabled son who pulled him up about his unfair schools policy. I am sure that most candidates from most parties would have made similar comments at some time during the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Here Feel a little sorry for Brown to be honest. Every politician (and sports commentator) makes inappropriate comments from time to time. Only the unlucky few get caught, and for some it makes them even more popular Kenny Everett says lets bomb the Russkies, kick Michael Foot’s stick away... I don't see it as an issue at all..it was a private comment that just happened to appear on tape. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron made a few disparaging comments in private about the guy with the disabled son who pulled him up about his unfair schools policy. I am sure that most candidates from most parties would have made similar comments at some time during the campaign. I suspect that Cameron wouldn’t make comments about a man with a disabled son, its something to be fair he’s sensitive on. I am sure Cameron like all politicians has made plenty of gaffes off microphone. You might say at least Cameron spoke to the guy; Brown walked off when asked about schools It wouldn’t be an issue if it hadn’t happened. It has and to many people it will just ‘colour’ the view that Brown is on edge, is out of touch with people, and just a little edge. I am wondering if the click in it is the pen going into the headset? Whoever set that up I am sure is not going to be in the job for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarry Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 this i agree with i think if you cant speak the language you shouldnt have the opportunbity to vote What level of English would you require? GCSE? Which grade? What about "non-foreign" illiterate and barely literate people? What about people with Alzheimer's (for example) who may or may not be having a "good" day? What about people who have forgotten to take medication on polling day? "Foreigners" voting must be registered, thus paying some sort of tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 28, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted April 28, 2010 That gaffe is about the last thing Brown needed. However, I think you might need to see what else she'd said, before the C4 site's clip starts, to see what he felt was bigotted. Apparently she had a problem with Eastern European immigration, depending on what she said, the context etc etc, she could well have flown close to the wing of bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Brown responds Gordon Brown is asked to respond to his own Mrs Duffy comments on Jeremy Vine on BBC2. The remarks are played out to him. As he listens he holds his head in his hands and sounds close to tears. "I was dealing with a question that she raised about immigration and I wasn't given a chance to answer it because we had a whole melee of press around us. Of course I apologise... "It was a question about immigration that really I think was annoying. "I'm blaming myself for what is done... "This was me being helpful to the broadcasters with my microphone on, I was rushing to get to another appointment... "I apologise profusely to the lady concerned..." link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricardomeister Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 this i agree with i think if you cant speak the language you shouldnt have the opportunbity to vote What level of English would you require? GCSE? Which grade? What about "non-foreign" illiterate and barely literate people? What about people with Alzheimer's (for example) who may or may not be having a "good" day? What about people who have forgotten to take medication on polling day? "Foreigners" voting must be registered, thus paying some sort of tax. Very true, and what about people in Wales? Should they be stopped from voting if they don't speak the language? Indeed which language would they have to speak? The original post was as ridiculous and impractical as it was racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I was just trying to do you a favour. As someone with a top law degree and family who work in the law I can assure you that your comments are at the very least indirect racial discrimination. I explained to you what the law is and explained how you were being racist and if you then choose to ignore it then that is your problem. You may not have to defend yourself against me but if you carry on in the same way and keep making racist comments then you may well have to defend yourself to the police and to a judge and jury! From the UK Border Agency's website: The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill will lay down a radical new approach to British citizenship that will require all migrants to speak English and obey the law if they want to gain citizenship and stay permanently in Britain - while speeding up the path to citizenship for those who contribute to the community by being active citizens. "We are clear that newcomers should speak English, work hard, and earn the right to stay here - and only get British citizenship once they have proved their commitment to the country. "Migration only works if it brings benefits, and these measures will ensure that only those migrants that make a positive impact on their local community will be able to stay in the UK." Top law degree maybe, coomon sense, hmmm, not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricardomeister Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I am not particularly a fan of Brown but I think that deep down he is a decent man who is under a huge amount of pressure and, as others have said, you have to also consider the context of what this woman said to him, especially when it was about immigration. It was a private statement which was unfortunate but these things happen. He has apologised and I cannot see any sensible person changing their mind on who to vote for because of this relatively trivial incident. In fact I think that the worst thing to come out of this is the desperate opportunism of people like Gideon Osborne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 28, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 28, 2010 this i agree with i think if you cant speak the language you shouldnt have the opportunbity to vote What level of English would you require? GCSE? Which grade? What about "non-foreign" illiterate and barely literate people? What about people with Alzheimer's (for example) who may or may not be having a "good" day? What about people who have forgotten to take medication on polling day? "Foreigners" voting must be registered, thus paying some sort of tax. Very true, and what about people in Wales? Should they be stopped from voting if they don't speak the language? Indeed which language would they have to speak? The original post was as ridiculous and impractical as it was racist. a) find me a Welsh person who isn't capable of speaking English, clue: They don't exist, so your point is entirely moot (the last Welsh only speaker died some long time ago), I suspect the same is true for the Gaelic speakers in Scotland nothing Demetri said was racist, at no point did he discriminate on the grounds of race. The ability to speak English is not a racial trait c) to be able to vote in this country means you must be a citizen, it is not racist to suggest that someone who is not a native to the country who wishes to become naturalised at least be proficient in speaking the language The practicalities and minor points of the matter aren't relevant but I see nothing that Demetri has said that is racist, so please desist in making such accusations in this forum otherwise action will have to be taken. If you think someone has crossed a line you inform us not make accusations in the forum. This line of posting stops right here, it is as Demetri says, off topic and no longer relevant to this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 His mistake is apologising to her - he was being honest something you see rarely in any politician - the woman is a bigot And if that had been David Cameron......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I am not particularly a fan of Brown but I think that deep down he is a decent man who is under a huge amount of pressure and, as others have said, you have to also consider the context of what this woman said to him, especially when it was about immigration. It was a private statement which was unfortunate but these things happen. He has apologised and I cannot see any sensible person changing their mind on who to vote for because of this relatively trivial incident. In fact I think that the worst thing to come out of this is the desperate opportunism of people like Gideon Osborne. Its these “trivial things” that often decide elections or cloud people’s views. Its not going to get any Brown supporters to not be Brown supporters, but for some people undecided it won’t necessarily play well, particularly if you are part of the grey sector. He may be a decent man, and he may be under enormous pressure. But as PM its almost irrelevant if you are a decent man or the pressure you are under. No one wants a PM voted in under a sympathy vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricardomeister Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I was just trying to do you a favour. As someone with a top law degree and family who work in the law I can assure you that your comments are at the very least indirect racial discrimination. I explained to you what the law is and explained how you were being racist and if you then choose to ignore it then that is your problem. You may not have to defend yourself against me but if you carry on in the same way and keep making racist comments then you may well have to defend yourself to the police and to a judge and jury! From the UK Border Agency's website: The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill will lay down a radical new approach to British citizenship that will require all migrants to speak English and obey the law if they want to gain citizenship and stay permanently in Britain - while speeding up the path to citizenship for those who contribute to the community by being active citizens. "We are clear that newcomers should speak English, work hard, and earn the right to stay here - and only get British citizenship once they have proved their commitment to the country. "Migration only works if it brings benefits, and these measures will ensure that only those migrants that make a positive impact on their local community will be able to stay in the UK." Top law degree maybe, coomon sense, hmmm, not so sure. Risso, you are totally missing the point. The part that I pointed out was racist was not the part that everyone should be encouraged to speak English. You will see that I agreed with that. The point that I took exception to is where he said: "this i agree with i think if you cant speak the language you shouldnt have the opportunbity to vote" That is racist, not just by my definition. If he wants to carry on with those attitudes then it is up to him but someone will pull him up eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 His mistake is apologising to her - he was being honest something you see rarely in any politician - the woman is a bigot And if that had been David Cameron......................... Sky would never have been so quick to release this to the world :-) His "mistake" if you want to call it that seems to be getting caught saying what he felt. Good on you Mr Brown I say, now tell us what you really think of that snivelling little shit Osborne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Womans response.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ricardomeister Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I am sorry Bickster but you are 100% incorrect on point b. What he said constitutes indirect racial discrimination. That is a fact. I do not make the law. I am merely stating what the law in that case is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 His mistake is apologising to her - he was being honest something you see rarely in any politician - the woman is a bigot And if that had been David Cameron......................... Sky would never have been so quick to release this to the world :-) His "mistake" if you want to call it that seems to be getting caught saying what he felt. Good on you Mr Brown I say, now tell us what you really think of that snivelling little shit Osborne She is (was?) a Labour voter though, typically you would want to keep them onside if you were the Labour leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 a) find me a Welsh person who isn't capable of speaking English, clue: They don't exist, so your point is entirely moot (the last Welsh only speaker died some long time ago), I suspect the same is true for the Gaelic speakers in Scotland From personal experience in Llandudno on a geography field trip I can confirm that several non english speakers do exist when asked penetrating questions on why they were visiting the town that day. Mind you they did say “Bugger off”... I believe that parts of Northern Ireland have some Gaelic, and Irish Scots speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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