Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #5 - Leaders Debate Two

[kidlewis]

I'd go as far to say that if that volcano had erupted for say an entire month and no flights could leave, we'd be pretty screwed right now.

The UK wouldn't have been the only ones.

far from it, but other countries are in a much better position to us and could take the hit,

my argument would be because of the deficit and the financial position the country is in, largely down to bail outs and recession but also due to a massive Labour government that hasn't saved, hasn't spent well and wants to tax us even more and keep spending the same in most areas where there is a big budget, that we would be back in recession and would end up behind the biggies in rest of europe.

Labour is gambling on this recovery continuing and nothing stopping it.

[snowychap]

Incapacity Benefit claimants

From the Labour manifesto:

More people with disabilities and health conditions will be helped to move into work from Incapacity Benefit and Employment Support Allowance, as we extend the use of our tough-but-fair work capability test. This will help to reduce the benefit bill by £1.5 billion over the next four years.

We will reassess the Incapacity Benefit claims of 1.5 million people by 2014, as we move those able to work back into jobs.

For those with the most serious conditions or disabilities who want to work there will be a new guarantee of supported employment after two years on benefit. We will seek to ensure that disabled people are able to lead dignified and independent lives, free of discrimination and with the support to which they are entitled.

From the Tory manifesto:

We will scrap Labour’s failing employment schemes and create a single Work Programme for everyone who is unemployed, including the 2.6 million people claiming incapacity Benefit who do not get enough help from existing programmes. We will reassess all current claimants of Incapacity Benefit. Those found fit for work will be transferred onto jobseeker’s allowance. recipients of Incapacity Benefit who are genuinely disabled will continue to receive the financial support to which they are entitled.

Slightly different language and the Tories don't say over what period they intend to 'reassess' current claimants of IB but, basically, the same thing which is unsurprising considering the source of the policy was the same man.

[kidlewis]

I think Jon that there are various people who actually want the debate. The powers that be in ALL of the parties though are stopping it preferring more about hair styles and ways to look at the camera and standing in front of bread to get political donations

I do agree with this, whilst the debates needed to happen, people are resorting to clapometers, style over substance and the odd remark to try and get points rather than make points.

Clegg seems a little arogant to me, but the majority see him as something fresh and new and probably don't even realise what a manifesto is and the various aspects of theirs don't add up and are a bit of a fluffy nice idea.

All it will take is for Simon to give his verdict on the debates and whatever he says would probably decide the election. It's getting that ricidulous.

and we will hear clap guarantee comments like Jack Straw threw out on radio 4 earlier this week, he just threw in a quick comment about the BNP and the crowd went nuts with applause.

I wonder if I went into a meeting and just said in a negative tone 'THE BNP' whether I would get a raise and a promotion. I think we should all try it today when we need a good response.

'you short changed me'

'The BNP!' (negative tone)

'woaaaah, keep the change awesome!'

[snowychap]

Darren,

I agree with every word of that but neither media, political parties or their more partisan supporters want anything to do with nuanced debate when a soundbite can be created - whether it is accurate or not.

True.

I am hoping that a hung parliament might force political parties, leaders and their supporters to have that more nuanced debate.

I'm also still hoping we'll get fourth place, though.

[snowychap]

Clegg ... the majority see him as something fresh and new...

I wonder how relative that is, though.

We've had periods before when the SDP/Alliance/Lib Dems have seemed to make a breakthrough only for it not to be sustained.

I wonder whether it is the real disillusionment with both Labour and Conservative that has kept fuelling their position.

It might be argued that this is a shame and to the detriment of politics that a party's policies and the issues, on the whole, are not deciding their popularity; it is probably a valid argument but the old adage goes that elections are for governments to lose and I'm not sure why this one ought to be different.

That adage, though, might be expanded now to say that electoral/political systems are for their old advocates to lose.

[drat01]

I think this is the best summary of a political party pledge list

The Monster Raving Loony Party - currently the Monster Raving William Hill Loony party, after a sponsorship deal with the bookies - is fielding several candidates this year.

England Three Lions symbol

Monster Raving Loonies: Three badgers better than three lions

Leader Howlin 'Laud' Hope was out campaigning in Witney (where his rivals include David Cameron) when the BBC News website spoke to him.

Pledges he was campaigning on included "joining Europe in a big way" - by inviting the other European countries to join the pound sterling and then making the entire UK a European offshore tax haven.

He is also pledging a 99p coin to save on change (this was also a pledge last time around in 2005, but "no-one noticed it then, so we're still shouting about it now").

Other Monster Raving Loony manifesto suggestions - individual candidates can pick from an extensive list or choose their own - include:

• All socks to be sold in packs of 3 as a precaution against losing one

• Make it illegal for superheroes to use their powers for evil

• Ban all terrorists from having beards as they look scary

• Change the English symbol of three lions to 3 badgers

• School dinners must be regularly checked for radioactivity

• Add the Loch Ness Monster to the endangered species list

• Dedicated pogo stick lanes on routes to centres of work

Howlin 'Laud' Hope says he has had a "wonderful" reaction in Witney so far and hopes to keep his deposit - but on the other hand, the party says that if you get that many votes you are obviously "not loony enough", so you have to leave.

:-)

1. Health & Safety: We propose to ban Self Responsibilty on the grounds that it may be dangerous to your health.

2. M.P's Expenses: We propose that instead of a second home allowance M.P's will have a caravan which will be parked outside the Houses of Parliament. This will make it easier as flipping a caravan is easier than flipping homes

3. Eurofit: The European Constitution which will be sorted out by going for a long Walk. "As everyone knows that walking is good for the constitution"

4. The speaker in the House of Commons will be replaced by the latest audio equipment

5. To help the Israel/Palestinian Problem, we will get rid of the old road map, and replace it with a new sat nav instead

6. European Union: It is proposed that the European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one -sided.

7. Education: We will increase the number of Women teachers throughout the education System as we are strong believers of 'Female Intuition'

8. Immigration and Population: I propose that we cap the population of this country. We have too many people for such a small country, so we will Cap the number of people residing here at present rates (approximately 63 million, give or take 10 mill ) on the basis of one out, one in (excluding Births).

Regarding Immigration... Any Person who can prove that they or their descendants emigrated to the U.K before 55 A.D can stay. All the others will be repatriated to their original country. (Well we have to draw the line somewhere)

9. We will ban all forms of Greyhound racing. This will help stop the counrty going to the dogs.

10. Afghanistan, Iraq and the War on terror. Theirs nothing funny about this. however as we have not found any taliban terrorists in Derbyshire. Our Soldiers can all come home now.

[Demitri_C]

Of course what you said is racist...it may or may not be direct racial discrimination but it certainly is indirect racial discrimination and there should be no place for such prejudice in our society.

have you not read my points at all you havent clearly

It is indirect racial discrimination to set conditions or requirements for a person to meet which may seem to apply to everyone, but may place people of a particular racial, ethnic or national group at an unfair disadvantage, and that is exactly what you are advocating.

i am saying that if you wnat to come here learn the british way how on earth is that racist?

What you said is that you should not be able to vote if you cannot speak the language and I think most decent people will find that attitude unacceptable.

Maybe you do not realise that you are being racist but that is no defence under the law.

you find it unacceptable i dont see anyone else complaining your in a small minority. i hate it when people like you throw the racism card about when you mention anything about foreigners and you dont agree with it. then someone will say "your a racist!" when i have done no such thing.anyway i dont have to defend myself against you, you dont know me and couldnt care less what you think

anyway this is wya off topic and cant be bothered to respond to these silly attacks from you as its

[Undesirable]

Bit off topic but i saw the Conservatives election broadcast yesterday and i think it's the most pompous and pathetic broadcast i've seen so far. The greens looked like it had been created by Tony Hart, the BNP's was laughable with Nick Griffin's general like posturing but the Tory's seemed to just had some posh bloke exagerating the risks of voting Lib Dem while the colouring of the text even aped the lib dems colours. All a bit childish.

[mjmooney]

I'd love to know what percentage of voters never watch the party political broadcasts & debates and never read the manifestos or any serious newspaper coverage - but still vote.

I'll bet if there was a requirement to prove you'd done at least some of the above, the turnout would drop even lower than it is.

[tonyh29]

but, basically, the same thing

which is the same for about 90% of the policies and why it's somewhat surprising when people say I don't agree with a single Tory policy ..maybe we are back to policy or the person again ?

During the debates Cameron gave cast iron guarantees on the NHS and has done ever since he was leader of the party .. it's a priority to him ..... and yet somehow reading this thread the Tories are going to destroy it

and all this talk of the Tories still being Thatcher at heart .. I could have sworn that both Brown and Blair have invited her to number 10 for numerous photo ops ... heck I even remember Drat posting in a thread on here about Thatcher some time back how "even the tories were trying to distance themselves from her"

so make up your mind chaps .....

[Undesirable]

I'd love to know what percentage of voters never watch the party political broadcasts & debates and never read the manifestos or any serious newspaper coverage - but still vote.

I'll bet if there was a requirement to prove you'd done at least some of the above, the turnout would drop even lower than it is.

Probably, though if you flipped that and had to vote if you'd watched the broadcasts then you'd also get people voting who had watched them all, decided they were all careerist, self-interested, words removed and decided not to vote for any of them!

[BillyShears]

I think Gordon just **** up live on TV

[PauloBarnesi]

No wonder he’s only been talking to the party faithful

Election: Brown 'bigoted woman' jibe caught on tape

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been caught on microphone describing a voter he had just spoken to in Rochdale as a "bigoted woman".

The 65-year-old woman had challenged Mr Brown on a number of issues including immigration, crime and the economy during the exchange.

As he got into his car, he was still wearing a broadcast microphone and was heard to say "that was a disaster".

It comes after Labour vowed for him to meet more ordinary voters.

The comments were made as he got into his car after speaking to Gillian Duffy, not realising that he had a Sky News microphone pinned to his shirt.

He told an aide: "That was a disaster - they should never have put me with that woman. Whose idea was that? It's just ridiculous..."

Asked what she had said, he replied: "Everything, she was just a bigoted woman."

Mrs Duffy, a widow, said: "I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but if that's what he said I'm very upset. I'm very annoyed."

[Richard]

I think Gordon just **** up live on TV

How

[Guest Ricardomeister]

Of course what you said is racist...it may or may not be direct racial discrimination but it certainly is indirect racial discrimination and there should be no place for such prejudice in our society.

have you not read my points at all you havent clearly

It is indirect racial discrimination to set conditions or requirements for a person to meet which may seem to apply to everyone, but may place people of a particular racial, ethnic or national group at an unfair disadvantage, and that is exactly what you are advocating.

i am saying that if you wnat to come here learn the british way how on earth is that racist?

What you said is that you should not be able to vote if you cannot speak the language and I think most decent people will find that attitude unacceptable.

Maybe you do not realise that you are being racist but that is no defence under the law.

you find it unacceptable i dont see anyone else complaining your in a small minority. i hate it when people like you throw the racism card about when you mention anything about foreigners and you dont agree with it. then someone will say "your a racist!" when i have done no such thing.anyway i dont have to defend myself against you, you dont know me and couldnt care less what you think

anyway this is wya off topic and cant be bothered to respond to these silly attacks from you as its

I was just trying to do you a favour. As someone with a top law degree and family who work in the law I can assure you that your comments are at the very least indirect racial discrimination. I explained to you what the law is and explained how you were being racist and if you then choose to ignore it then that is your problem. You may not have to defend yourself against me but if you carry on in the same way and keep making racist comments then you may well have to defend yourself to the police and to a judge and jury!

[Richard]

Oh dear

[PauloBarnesi]

Here

Feel a little sorry for Brown to be honest. Every politician (and sports commentator) makes inappropriate comments from time to time. Only the unlucky few get caught, and for some it makes them even more popular

Kenny Everett says lets bomb the Russkies, kick Michael Foot’s stick away...

[Villaninireland]

Whoops

[Guest Ricardomeister]

I think this is the best summary of a political party pledge list

The Monster Raving Loony Party - currently the Monster Raving William Hill Loony party, after a sponsorship deal with the bookies - is fielding several candidates this year.

England Three Lions symbol

Monster Raving Loonies: Three badgers better than three lions

Leader Howlin 'Laud' Hope was out campaigning in Witney (where his rivals include David Cameron) when the BBC News website spoke to him.

Pledges he was campaigning on included "joining Europe in a big way" - by inviting the other European countries to join the pound sterling and then making the entire UK a European offshore tax haven.

He is also pledging a 99p coin to save on change (this was also a pledge last time around in 2005, but "no-one noticed it then, so we're still shouting about it now").

Other Monster Raving Loony manifesto suggestions - individual candidates can pick from an extensive list or choose their own - include:

• All socks to be sold in packs of 3 as a precaution against losing one

• Make it illegal for superheroes to use their powers for evil

• Ban all terrorists from having beards as they look scary

• Change the English symbol of three lions to 3 badgers

• School dinners must be regularly checked for radioactivity

• Add the Loch Ness Monster to the endangered species list

• Dedicated pogo stick lanes on routes to centres of work

Howlin 'Laud' Hope says he has had a "wonderful" reaction in Witney so far and hopes to keep his deposit - but on the other hand, the party says that if you get that many votes you are obviously "not loony enough", so you have to leave.

:-)

1. Health & Safety: We propose to ban Self Responsibilty on the grounds that it may be dangerous to your health.

2. M.P's Expenses: We propose that instead of a second home allowance M.P's will have a caravan which will be parked outside the Houses of Parliament. This will make it easier as flipping a caravan is easier than flipping homes

3. Eurofit: The European Constitution which will be sorted out by going for a long Walk. "As everyone knows that walking is good for the constitution"

4. The speaker in the House of Commons will be replaced by the latest audio equipment

5. To help the Israel/Palestinian Problem, we will get rid of the old road map, and replace it with a new sat nav instead

6. European Union: It is proposed that the European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one -sided.

7. Education: We will increase the number of Women teachers throughout the education System as we are strong believers of 'Female Intuition'

8. Immigration and Population: I propose that we cap the population of this country. We have too many people for such a small country, so we will Cap the number of people residing here at present rates (approximately 63 million, give or take 10 mill ) on the basis of one out, one in (excluding Births).

Regarding Immigration... Any Person who can prove that they or their descendants emigrated to the U.K before 55 A.D can stay. All the others will be repatriated to their original country. (Well we have to draw the line somewhere)

9. We will ban all forms of Greyhound racing. This will help stop the counrty going to the dogs.

10. Afghanistan, Iraq and the War on terror. Theirs nothing funny about this. however as we have not found any taliban terrorists in Derbyshire. Our Soldiers can all come home now.

I couldn't agree more Drat, I think the OMRLP are probably the only sane party left!

Their policy to combat global warming by putting air-conditioning units on the outside of every building is pure genius!! I am gutted that they are not standing in my constituency.

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