Premier League Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...

[dudevillaisnice]

Don't see Hazard going to Spurs.. I don't see them forking out the £££ required either for him unless they sell Bale or Modric.

[Troglodyte]

as long as they keep Bale and Modric.

That's the single most important issue for them. If they do manage to keep them and strengthen in the summer then they are a legitimate title threat. If they don't, then they will fall away and the Premier League's hierarchical status quo will return.

Surely SHUUURELY, someone like Barça will come in for Bale.

Bale was recently voted by Barça fans as the player they'd most like to sign. He topped the polls by a huge margin, with Jordi Alba and Thiago Silva quite a way behind in second and third. Of course, that doesn't mean that they will actually go for him, but the idea of Bale on the left and Dani Alves on the right does sound fantastic.

[GlastonSpur]

Don't see Hazard going to Spurs.. I don't see them forking out the £££ required either for him unless they sell Bale or Modric.

Spurs have spent very little for some time now (a net spend of just 8m spread over the last 5 windows), so we could certainly afford to spend big on Hazard without needing to sell Bale or Modric first.

[LondonLax]

Don't see Hazard going to Spurs.. I don't see them forking out the £££ required either for him unless they sell Bale or Modric.

Spurs have spent very little for some time now (a net spend of just 8m spread over the last 5 windows), so we could certainly afford to spend big on Hazard without needing to sell Bale or Modric first.

Levy is saving money to try and build a new stadium. I don't think Spurs would fork out big money for a player unless one is sold.

[PauloBarnesi]

as long as they keep Bale and Modric.

That's the single most important issue for them. If they do manage to keep them and strengthen in the summer then they are a legitimate title threat. If they don't, then they will fall away and the Premier League's hierarchical status quo will return.

Surely SHUUURELY, someone like Barça will come in for Bale.

Bale was recently voted by Barça fans as the player they'd most like to sign. He topped the polls by a huge margin, with Jordi Alba and Thiago Silva quite a way behind in second and third. Of course, that doesn't mean that they will actually go for him, but the idea of Bale on the left and Dani Alves on the right does sound fantastic.

Where was Habe Beye in that list?

[Nigel]

If it means Arsenal and Liverpool both outside the top 4 (and Chelsea outside the top 3) then I don't want Spurs' season being derailed. I hope Spurs keep Harry til the end of the season and then everyone can do whatever they want.

Agreed, although Im not so bothered about Arsenal or Chelsea, but Liverpool are a horrible club that need to be bought down a peg or two.

[dudevillaisnice]

Don't see Hazard going to Spurs.. I don't see them forking out the £££ required either for him unless they sell Bale or Modric.

Spurs have spent very little for some time now (a net spend of just 8m spread over the last 5 windows), so we could certainly afford to spend big on Hazard without needing to sell Bale or Modric first.

I don't see it.

[PompeyVillan]

Wages?

[MMFy]

Don't see Hazard going to Spurs.. I don't see them forking out the £££ required either for him unless they sell Bale or Modric.

Spurs have spent very little for some time now (a net spend of just 8m spread over the last 5 windows), so we could certainly afford to spend big on Hazard without needing to sell Bale or Modric first.

A net spend of £8m over 5 windows Isa phenomenally good business, given the improvements to Spuds squad in that time.

The difference between Villa 3 years ago and Spuds now is the depth of the squad and a manager who knows how and when to use substitutions/tactical changes.

Fair play to Spuds for that. I still think Harry is a word removed though.

[GlastonSpur]

... Levy is saving money to try and build a new stadium. I don't think Spurs would fork out big money for a player unless one is sold.

We have a big list of players who can be sold without really affecting the squad quality or depth. They include (but are not limited to):

Jenas

Bentley

dos Santos

Corluka

Bassong

Pienaar

Gomes

Selling these, coupled with our low net spend over the last 5 windows, means that Spurs could easily afford to spend big on Hazard without selling Modric or Bale.

We could also do so despite the plans for a new stadium. Apart from anything else, Levy is too good a chairman to make the mistake of under-investing in the squad .... because he knows that a strong squad means a good possibility of CL football each season, which in turn can mean a huge increase in club income each year.

[Voinjama]

Spurs are a top team now. It is amazing to think, the league table exactly 2 years villa were ahead. But since March 2010 they have improved dramatically and the gap has just got bigger and bigger. Unfortunatly I think the gap will increase even more with McClown in charge of our once great club.

[Troglodyte]

as long as they keep Bale and Modric.

That's the single most important issue for them. If they do manage to keep them and strengthen in the summer then they are a legitimate title threat. If they don't, then they will fall away and the Premier League's hierarchical status quo will return.

Surely SHUUURELY, someone like Barça will come in for Bale.

Bale was recently voted by Barça fans as the player they'd most like to sign. He topped the polls by a huge margin, with Jordi Alba and Thiago Silva quite a way behind in second and third. Of course, that doesn't mean that they will actually go for him, but the idea of Bale on the left and Dani Alves on the right does sound fantastic.

Where was Habe Beye in that list?

You've not heard that they've already reached a pre-contract agreement with him, on €200,000 per week? Beye to Barça has been on the cards for years.

[LondonLax]

... Levy is saving money to try and build a new stadium. I don't think Spurs would fork out big money for a player unless one is sold.

We have a big list of players who can be sold without really affecting the squad quality or depth. They include (but are not limited to):

Jenas

Bentley

dos Santos

Corluka

Bassong

Pienaar

Gomes

Selling these, coupled with our low net spend over the last 5 windows, means that Spurs could easily afford to spend big on Hazard without selling Modric or Bale.

We could also do so despite the plans for a new stadium. Apart from anything else, Levy is too good a chairman to make the mistake of under-investing in the squad .... because he knows that a strong squad means a good possibility of CL football each season, which in turn can mean a huge increase in club income each year.

You Have been trying to flog those players for quite a while now and at the same time have been unwilling or unable to spend what is required to get a top striker in, resorting to a loan from Man City and a free transfer from everton.

What makes you think the situation is suddenly going to change?

[MMFy]

I think he's been in jobs where he's arguably reached the limitations, rather than he himself being limited.

I strongly disagree with this. If MON repeatedly hit the ceiling at the clubs he manages, he should be more careful how he selects the clubs he manages. Also, he wouldn't have taken the Sunderland job if he ever had aspirations of real success.

MON hit his ceiling at Villa, in that he couldn't buy a squad or make tactical substitutions. Give him a full season at Sunderland and he will do the same there. Sunderland under MON will win no more than one game in March 2013. Watch this space.

[MMFy]

So Redknapp is not ruling out managing England for the summer. Why wouldn't he? He now has the chance to tap up the entire England team and then return to Spuds with his pick of them for next season.

It doesn't matter how he performs for England; if he fails to win a single game he never had chance to make his mark on the squad and the press will instantly forgive him, but if he is a success we will never hear the **** end of it.

[joey55]

I think he's been in jobs where he's arguably reached the limitations, rather than he himself being limited.

I strongly disagree with this. If MON repeatedly hit the ceiling at the clubs he manages, he should be more careful how he selects the clubs he manages. Also, he wouldn't have taken the Sunderland job if he ever had aspirations of real success.

MON hit his ceiling at Villa, in that he couldn't buy a squad or make tactical substitutions. Give him a full season at Sunderland and he will do the same there. Sunderland under MON will win no more than one game in March 2013. Watch this space.

At as club like Villa or Sunderland you are far more limited in what you can buy with the money you get. That is what really limits clubs. To say MON hit his ceiling suggests you think there are other managers out there that could have done better. Every now and again a manager comes along that is the right guy for a particular club at the right time, but this happens very rarely. I can't see any of the current big name managers doing much better than MON did at Villa when it comes to building a squad.

You say he can't make tacical substitutions, but pretty much every manager ii the Prem gets criticised tactically. It's becasue fans over complicate football and think tactical decisions are having greater impacts than they really are.

After we beat Newcastle the other day I went on one of their messageboards to see what they were saying and the general feeling was Pardews weakness is his tactical ability. For years now Wenger has been hammered for his tactics by Arsenal fans. See how utterly worthless Rafa Benitez tactics became when he didn't have so much money to spend. Look how useless AVB has proved. Even Harry has had his tactical ability questioned on this very forum, despite the fact for 2 years in a row we won more points from losing positions than any other team. Yet Harry himself says tactics are massively over rated. I totally agree with him. When a guy who tells his striker to "run around a bit" is making decisions that change games more than anyone else in arguably the world best league, for two season in a row, then you have to question the value of alot of so called "tactial analysis."

I'm not saying having a game plan or the ability to change things during games isn't important. It's just fans think there is a tactical solution to every problem and every game can be won with the right tactics. They become so convinced by this that what is in fact a relatively minor part of managing a team has become one of the key things fans judge managers on. Yet time and time again we see a mangers tactical accumen is almost entirely dependant on the quality and type of players he has at his disposal.

Look at the players Mourinho bought when at Chelsea that could potentially have been persauded to go to Villa. There weren't many, but in reality do you really think he'd have done any better than MON by employing his tactical accumen whilst watching Pizzaro, Sidwell, Ben Haim and Jarosik running around Villa Park. Because given you the restrications he'd have at Villa, those are the kind of players he have bought and his ceiling would have also been top 6.

If Villa were taken over by a billionaire Arab and could afford loads of world class players, I'd have no doubt that whoever you employed as manager would show a remarkable amount of tactical ability and squad building talent. Yet if the same manager was sacked and went to work at Sunderland, i doubt he'd do aswell as MON.

[briny_ear]

Wow. Excellent post Joey. Not so sure it will get a great reception on VT but there is a great deal of truth and good sense in what you say. Tactical/personnel changes during a match always seem a bit of a gamble to me. Like any gamble, sometimes they come off and the manager is duly hailed as a tactical genius. But so much depends on the quality and attitude if the players. All the tactics in the world will come to nothing if the players aren't good enough.

[MrDuck]

Agreed, good post Joey.

[MMFy]

And you won't have to worry about signing Eden Hazard, Stephen Warnock should soon become available for a cool £25m and MON could play him in an advanced CM role.

[MMFy]

Joey - good post. I still have to pick flies with one bit though.

You say he can't make tacical substitutions, but pretty much every manager ii the Prem gets criticised tactically. It's becasue fans over complicate football and think tactical decisions are having greater impacts than they really are.

Glaston posted the other day that Spurs only had a total net spend of £8m in five consecutive windows. This is an amazing feat considering the success and growth Spurs have seen in the same period. Your squad is in much better shape now than it when you took that 4th place a couple of years ago.

Martin O'Neill and substitutions though. He spent a net £90m over four years, building a shit squad into what could have been a great squad, but couldn't get past the final hurdle. He bought 10 of the starting 11 players in. Friedel, Luke Young, Collins (before he was shit), Dunne (see Collins) and Warnock (see Dunne/Collins) was the second phase of development of his tenure - the first phase of which saw him sell a promising Gary Cahill and spunk the money on a proven (shit) Zat Knight; and spunk £10m on Curtis Davies - a great Championship player. And Nicky Shorey, but we'll forget about him. The defence cost something like £23m, and at one point was the best in the league UP UNTIL March.

He brought in his own midfield, albeit one that could only play counter-attacking football. The combined cost of Young, Milner, Petrov & Downing was around £40m.

Up front he failed, pretty much fundamentally.

Now here is the challenge (not for Villa supporters). Could you name six outfield substitutes (of the same calibre listed above) that could have played a part if required? Remember MON played the youth team against CSKA Moscow and forfeited a UEFA Cup QF...

MON failed to build a squad. His first XI was very good, and if the season finished in February (less games) we would have been in with a good shout at top 3/4 for his last three seasons. However, you can't run a car on empty. You can't get 600 miles out of tank that will only hold enough fuel for 400 miles. Look at his history.

Leicester: Won two league cups at a time when the big teams were trying to opt out of them, playing their youth teams to rest the first team. I'm not discrediting their wins, but the big teams just didn't seem to give a shit about the Carling Cup back then. His league finishes were unremarkable but a bit better than possibly expected. He was not managing a club that were on a meteoric rise - however they dropped like a stone after he left. He did not sustain a long run of wins in his time there.

Celtic. The Scottish league is a joke. You had Celtic and Rangers, then pretty much 10 Wigans to make up a league. You have four big derby matches a season, upon which the league is decided and 32 friendlies. This gives you time to buy players specifically to compete in Europe (as Rangers are doing the same). Celtic got to the UEFA Cup Final in 2003 under MON's stewardship. It's easy to build a team for Cup runs though when your domestic league is such a joke. Everyone thinks Schteve McClaren is a shit manager but he took little Middlesboro to the same UEFA final.

Villa. He established a great XI but the squad was too weak to support them. He was extremely lucky with injuries through his four years. He tried to play the same eleven players for the whole season, but as February/March came round, year after year, they burned out at different stages.

It was not so much a case of 'not making tactical substitutions' as I originally, possibly incorrectly, stated. It is more a case of not making substitutions at all, or when he did, when we needed a different dimension, he would swap like-for-like. Take off Carew, bring on Heskey. Take off Milner (when he was on the wing), Bring on Downing. When all we needed was to rest a player for a match, we never had a good enough player to come into the team to allow them a breather for a week, a time to recuperate.

I can't see MON doing it any differently at Sunderland - he will find his best XI and stick with them. He will sell periphary players in the summer, some of which people would consider to be critical to their squad, and he will replace them with expensive squad players whom he will likely rarely if ever use. He can maintain dressing room harmony and build a good team spirit for the first XI, but outside of that the other players know they aren't going to get a look-in.

I believe MON's ceiling is that he can't manage a big squad - a squad of the size required to play 38 league games and at least 10 cup games, AND be successful. It's a shame, he is a good motivator, he just isn't quite good enough.

People touted him for the United and England jobs for years and years, yet he went to a relegation-bound Villa and then a languishing Sunderland. If he really is a manager of the calibre some seem to think, would he really spend his entire career down in the weeds?