NurembergVillan Posted September 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2010 1) The value of trophies won when the league structure was tiny - and most of today's clubs weren't even it But that counts for nothing. Today's clubs didn't exist but there were other clubs of the era who were as powerful as the powerful clubs are now. Despite what some people think, football wasn't invented in 1992. There was a time when more than four clubs held sway over English football. It might have been Wolves or Blackpool or even Accrington Stanley but at the time they were the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea of that era. If Portsmouth go out of business never to return will we look back in 10 years and say that Chelsea's FA Cup win last season doesn't count any more? One thing that CAN be argued is with European football. If by some miracle Spurs won the Champions League this year it'd be less valuable than Villa's win because in 1982 every team in it had won their respective leagues. These days the competition is weaker because some teams in it only finished 4th to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I guess the holocaust never happened either, as it was reported before Sir Candleface's apointment. ooooooh you can't mention the holocaust on a Spurs thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 ... Thats assumes that 1 League Cup or FA cup is equivalent to European Champions, it clearly isn't No, it doesn't assume that. During the period concerned to date, it assumes that: * Two top-flight League Championships are better than one. * Seven FA Cups are better than two. * Three European trophies are as good as one European Cup. * Five League Cups for Villa is one better than four for Spurs And overall, based on the above, it assumes that 16 trophies is better than 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Would people please stop feeding the troll so we can get back to some normal discussion on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Glaston you half talk some shite, you would replace all of your European Trophies for being the true Champions of Europe, so if we take what your saying about your European Trophies, does that make your 3 European Trophies as equivalent to Man United's 3 European Cups? I honestly thought you were becoming half decent but your a deluded cockney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 So by your victorian football league had less teams so it was easier logic glaston, if gartside got his way and the prem was cut down to the top 12 teams it would be easier? WW1 is an absolutely pointless reference in time to start from only chosen because it suits your arguement, you may as well start on the 17th oct 1956, or last tuesday, or at least prem era ffs What else are you going to start discounting? Uruguays world cup win because the major european teams didnt play? Daft arguement going nowhere, but keep on trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 ... Today's clubs didn't exist but there were other clubs of the era who were as powerful as the powerful clubs are now.... The point is that there were far fewer of them, thus far less competition: just 12 originally in a single division, compared to 94 today across 4 divisions. And that 12 didn't include any clubs outside the Midlands and North. Even by the end of the Victorian era there were still only 36 clubs involved. ... If Portsmouth go out of business never to return will we look back in 10 years and say that Chelsea's FA Cup win last season doesn't count any more? ... Yet again, no one is saying that Villa's Victorian era trophies don't count. .... One thing that CAN be argued is with European football. If by some miracle Spurs won the Champions League this year it'd be less valuable than Villa's win because in 1982 every team in it had won their respective leagues. These days the competition is weaker because some teams in it only finished 4th to qualify. On the contrary, the CL still includes all the teams who have "won their respective leagues". Except now it also includes a whole raft of other clubs, many of whom are very strong teams. Thus the competition is expanded and more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 The champions league more difficult! **** right off! I dont remember dead rubbers against hard to spell teams who finished 3rd in a league poorer than the championship with a £500k bonus for battering them i remember straight knock out no seeding, real madrid 1st round? Tough shit, if spurs had drawn inter 1st round would you still be a knob saying how easy it is? Would you bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 On the contrary Didn't see that coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Would people please stop feeding the troll so we can get back to some normal discussion on this thread. Your concept of "discussion" would thus appear to involve little more than a string of abuse and a collection of unchallenged opinions and largely inaccurate statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Would people please stop feeding the troll so we can get back to some normal discussion on this thread. Your concept of "discussion" would thus appear to involve little more than a string of abuse and a collection of unchallenged opinions and largely inaccurate statements. Quite the twitchy one today aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 He really does do it elsewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 The champions league more difficult! **** right off! I dont remember dead rubbers against hard to spell teams who finished 3rd in a league poorer than the championship with a £500k bonus for battering them i remember straight knock out no seeding, real madrid 1st round? Tough shit, if spurs had drawn inter 1st round would you still be a knob saying how easy it is? Would you bollocks For every "dead rubber" there are many matches in today's CL against teams that finished 2nd - 4th in strong leagues: teams like Arsenal, Man. Utd, Real Madrid, Valencia, AC Milan, Werder Bremen, Lyon and so on. These very tough opponents are in addition to the league champions from each league, which unquestionably makes it a harder competition to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey55 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Both sides are being a bit pathetic. Glaston there is no chance our European trophies are worth anyhwere near as much as one European Cup. But likewise, Villa fans, your Victorian age successes don't carry the weight of success in the modern era, after the league system was more established and it was a natinwide competition rather than close to an exclusinvely nothern competion. I don't think there was a sinlge southern side in the 1st divison during that era, so it isn't like winning the title in the post war era. But even so, we've only won it twice ourselves and long before the last time you won it, so we've got nothing to brag about there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 No what you have is 2 hard games against 1 good team followed by 4 games against weak teams, and they will be weak teams thanks to seeding You can lose 10-0 twice to the best team and still make it through, look at liverpool the year they won it, shit in the group stage scraped through an won it, 20 years ago you were shit once and there was no coming back, braga will still be confident of qualifying this morning, thats harder? Get real And thats before you start talking about the £30m you pick up just for being shit, the champions league is designed to make te big teams rich and uefa richer, the european cup was designed to find the best team in europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2010 ... Today's clubs didn't exist but there were other clubs of the era who were as powerful as the powerful clubs are now.... The point is that there were far fewer of them, thus far less competition: just 12 originally in a single division, compared to 94 today across 4 divisions. And that 12 didn't include any clubs outside the Midlands and North. Even by the end of the Victorian era there were still only 36 clubs involved.] The point is, having more clubs doesn't automatically make the league more competitive, take a look at recent league winners for evidence of this its a very small club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 16, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2010 Glaston - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Glaston you half talk some shite, you would replace all of your European Trophies for being the true Champions of Europe ... Actually I wouldn't, because all European trophies are difficult to win, even if the European Cup is by far the major prize. But that's a matter of personal choice since I'm sure some Spurs fans would make the swap. ... so if we take what your saying about your European Trophies, does that make your 3 European Trophies as equivalent to Man United's 3 European Cups? ... No, obviously not ... and nor have I suggested any such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I see we're still on "my dad's bigger than your dad".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 .... having more clubs doesn't automatically make the league more competitive ... True, it's not necessarily an automatic thing. But generally speaking it's harder to make it into the top division, to stay there and then become its champions when there are many more chasing competitors. And it's also a lot easier to become champions when the competition doesn't include clubs from London and the South. The modern TV era is different again, because the advent of TV mega money has made it much harder for lower division clubs to compete, and the advent of CL mega money (again TV based) has tended to cement in place those teams that have played in the CL season after season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts