AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Because there's more to tactics than just formations. I agree with this. Formation and substitutions are one component of a tactical approach, albeit a fairly major component IMO. But do you think that MON is right to persist with the 4-4-2 with JC for Emile being pretty much his only change when things aren't working? There is a debate to be had about tactics I think. I know Big John would like to restrict participation in this debate to the 20 or so premier league managers but I am guessing that would restrict many of us from expressing any views on our club on this site and leave it all to the posts saying "Isn't MON great" or "Should we sign XXXX in January" - not that stimulating for many of us?? Of course it shouldn't be his only change, I'm dissapointed at times when he fails to make a subsitution like it but I don't think it's cost us too much this year just yet. So it's hard to judge, because it's not as if the subsitution he's making constantly doesn't work. Wigan - Bad starting line up. Liverpool - Spot on. Fulham - Spot on. Blues - Spot on, from 4-5-1 changing to 4-4-2 (A tactic I'd like to see emplyed more) Portsmouth - Got it right choosing 4-4-2. Blackburn - Starting with 4-4-2 weren't too bad, although bringing Heskey on for Delph and losing our shape cost us in my opinion. Man City - Starting line up was decent, although 5 minutes before the City goal, he should of made the sub to go 4-5-1 as we were getting over-run! Chelsea - Spot on. Wolves - Actually worked the Subsitution bringing on Heskey, as he created the goal, similar match to Blues, we held on against Blues, this time 1 individual error cost us. Apart from that, we looked comfortable for the win. Heskey made this goal. I'm not sure others (most of them) in the team can control the ball like Heskey did on saturday. Why can't we do better? Well I'm not sure sacking MON is the solution. It's happends again, again and again. Yeah of course but give him credit, he made the run outwide to his right and played the ball into Agbonlahor, could of easily messed the pass up, picked the wrong option, not made the run in the first place. We can do better but the subsitution worked, you can't deny that, we got the goal we were looking for. An indivudual mistake cost us, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reykjavik Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 [quote="AVFC- Yeah of course but give him credit, he made the run outwide to his right and played the ball into Agbonlahor, could of easily messed the pass up, picked the wrong option, not made the run in the first place. We can do better but the subsitution worked, you can't deny that, we got the goal we were looking for. An indivudual mistake cost us, that's it. We got the goal yes. But my opinion, we didn't play well. Simply poor performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Which your quote backs up, so thanks. You said you'd never claimed that people who criticise the manager must consider themselves to be superior football managers to O'Neill. Personally, I think that quote is something that suggests otherwise. No i said not everyone, which is what risso was implying. So if you're going to get involved please read. More than happy to admit i think 2 or 3 on here truly do believe they know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienvillan Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 [quote="AVFC- Yeah of course but give him credit, he made the run outwide to his right and played the ball into Agbonlahor, could of easily messed the pass up, picked the wrong option, not made the run in the first place. We can do better but the subsitution worked, you can't deny that, we got the goal we were looking for. An indivudual mistake cost us, that's it. We got the goal yes. But my opinion, we didn't play well. Simply poor performance. We didn't play well, I just said the subsitution worked :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up. I'm sure the big 4, man city, spurs and everton could all look at the games they've had and pick out some that went well, some that didn't work and changes could have been made and some that didn't go to plan at all. For some reason though with us our manager must be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up. I'm sure the big 4, man city, spurs and everton could all look at the games they've had and pick out some that went well, some that didn't work and changes could have been made and some that didn't go to plan at all. For some reason though with us our manager must be replaced.92% say otherwise. Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up. I'm sure the big 4, man city, spurs and everton could all look at the games they've had and pick out some that went well, some that didn't work and changes could have been made and some that didn't go to plan at all. For some reason though with us our manager must be replaced.92% say otherwise. Relax. I'm not worried, like i said the people who pay there money aren't going to turn on the manager. I just don't see why some want him gone because so far this season every game hasn't gone perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 becuase people are entitled to form their own opinion... i personally dont share their opinions, but they are allowed to have them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I just don't see why some want him gone because so far this season every game hasn't gone perfect. Who has said that's the reason they'd like him replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm not worried, like i said the people who pay there money aren't going to turn on the manager. Oh right. So people who pay won't turn on the manager? Is this only for O'Neill or others? I remember every other manager getting boos. What a silly thing to say. In fact, I can remember similar things to O'Neill happening already before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I just don't see why some want him gone because so far this season every game hasn't gone perfect. Who has said that's the reason they'd like him replaced? I'd just take it as another one of those sweeping generalisations that aren't actually true to be honest, Risso. They tend to happen quite often. It's almost as if sometimes it's done on purpose to cause tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 becuase people are entitled to form their own opinion... i personally dont share their opinions, but they are allowed to have them... I understand that, i just think it's a real shame that the main villa forum is full of so much negativity and has been for some time. All through the summer we had to read how useless the manager was and how he wouldn't be able to build a squad and because he left it so late to replace laursen we'd end up over paying for average players yet we end up with collins and dunne. We had to read how we'd be lucky to finish top 8 and man city and spurs would leave us trailing behind but we're close to all the teams we're fighting with for that top 4 spot. And even in our good position at the moment all this site is full of is negativity. Our top scorer for the last 2 years and cult hero is now shit/lazy and should be benched but his england international replacement is shit and should be sold. The pfa young player of the year is shit and should be dropped, sidwell isn't good enough and petrov has the worse stamina in the premier league, milner works hard but isn't creative enough. And we have a manager who makes too many tactical mistakes and doesn't know how to use substitutions. I mean how shit must the premier league be if we are where we are with all these problems and issues? When did it become such a struggle to support a team challenging for a champions league place? When did it become so miserable to support a team that can compete with any other team on their day? When do we get to sit back and enjoy being a villa fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 This Is Your Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 becuase people are entitled to form their own opinion... i personally dont share their opinions, but they are allowed to have them... I understand that, i just think it's a real shame that the main villa forum is full of so much negativity and has been for some time. All through the summer we had to read how useless the manager was and how he wouldn't be able to build a squad and because he left it so late to replace laursen we'd end up over paying for average players yet we end up with collins and dunne. We had to read how we'd be lucky to finish top 8 and man city and spurs would leave us trailing behind but we're close to all the teams we're fighting with for that top 4 spot. And even in our good position at the moment all this site is full of is negativity. Our top scorer for the last 2 years and cult hero is now shit/lazy and should be benched but his england international replacement is shit and should be sold. The pfa young player of the year is shit and should be dropped, sidwell isn't good enough and petrov has the worse stamina in the premier league, milner works hard but isn't creative enough. And we have a manager who makes too many tactical mistakes and doesn't know how to use substitutions. I mean how shit must the premier league be if we are where we are with all these problems and issues? When did it become such a struggle to support a team challenging for a champions league place? When did it become so miserable to support a team that can compete with any other team on their day? When do we get to sit back and enjoy being a villa fan?personally, i have chosen to ignore a lot of the things that i would consider "strange", compared to my own opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Boys, Jekyll & Hyde here! When we lose it's because of bad tactics, stinker players, poor performance and everything else. When we win, we win the wrong way. IMO. Beat that! Not what I am saying. Some of our wins stand out as great performances - Plop and Fulham, always in control and very comfortable wins and Blues was good tactics for that game. Citeh & Chelski I thought we dominated first half but let them get back in through their tactical changes/pressure and I would have liked MON to respond to this with changes to our set up. Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves I think he got it wrong but compounded this by not taking the opportunity to use his bench to shake it up a bit. Pompey was a dull game for me where we beat a poor side without ever looking good and, again, I would have liked to see a bit more imagination when we were 2-0 up. These are all spot on ascertations. Our club motto is 'Prepared' and this is exactly what I don't have confidence in O'Neill being able to do. We need to be able to respond to situations and be able cover as many possible changes as possible during a game. We have 7 subs and MON picks 3 CM - there's no point to it and it is plain stupidity. When is it likely he'll bring on Gardner, NRC and Delph in the same game? He's just tring to keep players happy. We should have Defensive FB cover (Cuellar can cover CB), defensive Midfielder in NRC / Gardner, a winger Albrighton (covering Ashley and Milner and he can also supplement them), Heskey for Carew and a Goal keeper then the remaining 2 subs can be dependant on the game i.e. shitty poor relegation fodder that we should beat stick Delfouneso on as well, a difficult game stick an extra defender on etc. It seems it's easier to drop Albrighton & Delfouneso as they're not big names arther than risk upsetting Delph as he paid big money for him, or GArdner. I love Craig (and wish he's play more) but he's not required on the bench if NRC and Deloph are on there.... These are fuindamental mistakes and I really think it's down to lack of tactical, formational and game chnaging knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 When did it become such a struggle to support a team challenging for a champions league place? When did it become so miserable to support a team that can compete with any other team on their day? When do we get to sit back and enjoy being a villa fan? In all fairness BJ you can sit back whenever you want and enjoy being a Villa fan. I honestly couldn't be happier with the progress we have made in the last 3 years under Lerner and O'Neill. Nowhere near everything has gone perfectly but considering where we were when they arrived I think to ask for anymore is at best unrealistic and at worst deluded. I suggest you don't take other peoples opposing opinions to heart and if anything do what you suggested - sit back and enjoy being a Villa fan and pity those that can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 When did it become such a struggle to support a team challenging for a champions league place? When did it become so miserable to support a team that can compete with any other team on their day? When do we get to sit back and enjoy being a villa fan? In all fairness BJ you can sit back whenever you want and enjoy being a Villa fan. I honestly couldn't be happier with the progress we have made in the last 3 years under Lerner and O'Neill. Nowhere near everything has gone perfectly but considering where we were when they arrived I think to ask for anymore is at best unrealistic and at worst deluded. I suggest you don't take other peoples opposing opinions to heart and if anything do what you suggested - sit back and enjoy being a Villa fan and pity those that can't. I do get plenty of enjoyment going watching villa. I guess you're right, i should just ignore the negativity and sit back safe in the knowledge that I will get what i want and the ones who want him out are going to have quite a wait on their hands. Like i said i just think it's a shame that the main villa forum is full of so much negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm not worried, like i said the people who pay there money aren't going to turn on the manager. I just don't see why some want him gone because so far this season every game hasn't gone perfect. After you pulled out one of these retarded 'I'm a better fan than you as I pay money to go to games' comment, I asked you if you were there on Sat? Obviously you must have been there seeing as you're such a great supporter and as we all know spending money on following your team and supporting the manager is completely intrinsically linked. I was there, and guess what? I paid for it! BUT WAIT, I'm not behind the manager for reasons already disclosed. ZOMG!!! It seems that I am able to hold an opinion different to yours whilst still paying money to my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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