Ratings & Reactions: Crystal Palace v Villa

[Xela]

13 hours ago, Tayls said:

Everyone at the club should be ashamed with that. Doesn’t set us up nicely for the next campaign at all. 

Have the summer off mate. Enjoy the sun and relax, we finished 4th. 

Yesterdays result means absolutely nothing in relation to next season. It'll be forgotten about in a day or two. 

[Villan_of_oz]

19 minutes ago, Xela said:

Have the summer off mate. Enjoy the sun and relax, we finished 4th. 

Yesterdays result means absolutely nothing in relation to next season. It'll be forgotten about in a day or two. 

Yes but then what else can they moan about imagine our highest finish in the league in what 3 decades, and it's not good enough..

 

 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, VillaChris said:

What isn't really convincing you? We have a top/elite manager and some top/elite players and that is indisputable when you look at where we've finished.

Now if some were calling for a title push next season then losing in the manner we did today would suggest that's a remote hope and it really is. I would say most realistic posters would be happy with top 6 next season as that would mean another season of European football and realistically we're more set up to have a deeper run in the Europa league than CL currently.

It was a bad day today but so many factors that rendered it meaningless. A shame aswell we don't get a chance to bounce back from this one either for another three months. When we lost 5-1 opening day we won our next league game 4-0. When we lost to Spurs 4-0 we only then lost one of our next seven league games. We haven't lost back to back league games all season which is insane in a league as tough as the premier league.

All that suggests our mentality is fine tbh.

Seems a bit sad to me people latching on anything to criticise us for in games that are ultimately meaningless. The last time we won the league title we lost a game comfortably 2-0 of course.

I didn't say it wasn't convincing me.....what I said was the " unconvinced"

but let's get real here, despite a great season, we have limped over the line....since that home drubbing to Spurs, we have won 3, so to suggest the Palace game is a one off, is disingenuous.

I have wallowed in this season, of watching quite possibly the best game for years against City, and following it up against Arsenal......but overall we have conceded too many goals, to get too carried away.

along with us, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and Man U who will all be looking at tightening up, in order to progress.

Spurs are deemed Spursy, and yet they have conceded the same amount of goals as us.....we are a bit Spursy too.

Consistency is the goal we pursue, and yes there are pointers, like not losing back to back, that suggest we are getting there, but other pointers suggest, we have much work to do...particularly defensively.

Perhaps it's not a good time, to point these things out......but when the dust has settled, I am sure Unai, will address them.

We certainly won our block of 4 to 8, but if we want to break in to the top 3, we have some way to go.

 

 

[onmeedson]

It was all about fitness levels yesterday and we fell way short. Palace seemed to have far better athletes than we did and were mentally up for the game, our heads seem to drop to easily when the tables are turned. We know our faults therefore we have to add to this team and get them fitter for the new season. Yes it has been a good season but the better teams improve from last year and that is what Unai will want, i would happily have lost 2-0 yesterday but 5-0 is not the way to end the season.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I didn't say it wasn't convincing me.....what I said was the " unconvinced"

but let's get real here, despite a great season, we have limped over the line....since that home drubbing to Spurs, we have won 3, so to suggest the Palace game is a one off, is disingenuous.

I have wallowed in this season, of watching quite possibly the best game for years against City, and following it up against Arsenal......but overall we have conceded too many goals, to get too carried away.

along with us, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and Man U who will all be looking at tightening up, in order to progress.

Spurs are deemed Spursy, and yet they have conceded the same amount of goals as us.....we are a bit Spursy too.

Consistency is the goal we pursue, and yes there are pointers, like not losing back to back, that suggest we are getting there, but other pointers suggest, we have much work to do...particularly defensively.

Perhaps it's not a good time, to point these things out......but when the dust has settled, I am sure Unai, will address them.

We certainly won our block of 4 to 8, but if we want to break in to the top 3, we have some way to go.

 

 

O.k that's a more understandable viewpoint.

We have certainly lost far too much control in games and have conceded at an alarming rate for last three months so not going to argue that at all. It pretty much co-incides with all the games Kamara has missed this season so we must get in a similar player to him this summer rather than just asking 8s to drop back and play as a 6 as we've been doing in the run in.

I just think a target of wanting to get into the top 3 is unrealistic for the foreseeable future (whatever Unai is saying). Maybe Arnie Slot will be a disaster and Liverpool will quickly drop down the league but basically those three are well set to be 1-3rd for many seasons now.

Not like we can even spend that much this summer with all the FFP reports so more a case of retaining as much of this squad as we can, welcoming the long term injured back in August and then boxing clever and getting in 2-3 higher quality players in.

[El Segundo]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I didn't say it wasn't convincing me.....what I said was the " unconvinced"

but let's get real here, despite a great season, we have limped over the line....since that home drubbing to Spurs, we have won 3, so to suggest the Palace game is a one off, is disingenuous.

I have wallowed in this season, of watching quite possibly the best game for years against City, and following it up against Arsenal......but overall we have conceded too many goals, to get too carried away.

along with us, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and Man U who will all be looking at tightening up, in order to progress.

Spurs are deemed Spursy, and yet they have conceded the same amount of goals as us.....we are a bit Spursy too.

Consistency is the goal we pursue, and yes there are pointers, like not losing back to back, that suggest we are getting there, but other pointers suggest, we have much work to do...particularly defensively.

Perhaps it's not a good time, to point these things out......but when the dust has settled, I am sure Unai, will address them.

We certainly won our block of 4 to 8, but if we want to break in to the top 3, we have some way to go.

 

 

It's interesting that after first 19 games of the season we are in 4th place.  But for the second 19 games of the season we are 9th, behind Man Utd (8th) , Spurs (7th) Palace (6th) Newcastle (5th) and Chelsea (4th).   After the brilliant calendar year in 2023 over two half seasons , I'd say we've been "limping" for a while.  Some of it will be down to the extra European matches (none of the other teams mentioned had European football in the second half of the season) with tiredness and injuries clearly taking their toll.   But other teams also had injuries, arguably even worse affected  in the cases of Newcastle and Chelsea, and some had longer runs in the EFL Cup and FA Cup.   I think there is evidence that a few of the better coaches know how to counter Emery's system. We've seen Newcastle, Chelsea (Cup), Spurs and Olympiakos beat us at VP with intensive high pressing and late runners past the high line exploiting our weaknesses,  and Palace did it effectively yesterday albeit against a lethargic version of Villa wearing their flip-flops.    We've also developed an alarming habit of conceding from set pieces and crosses.   

I love Emery to bits but I think it's not unreasonable for some to be "unconvinced" nor to say the second half of the season has not been that convincing.   Ok it's the whole season that counts but you also need to consider trends and momentum.  Next season will be tougher because that Chelsea team have started to realise their potential and  if they keep Pochetino or get another elite manager, they're going to be right up there.    Newcastle, if they have more luck with injuries, will challenge and it's hard to imagine Man Yew being as poor as they've been this year again.                 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

O.k that's a more understandable viewpoint.

We have certainly lost far too much control in games and have conceded at an alarming rate for last three months so not going to argue that at all. It pretty much co-incides with all the games Kamara has missed this season so we must get in a similar player to him this summer rather than just asking 8s to drop back and play as a 6 as we've been doing in the run in.

I just think a target of wanting to get into the top 3 is unrealistic for the foreseeable future (whatever Unai is saying). Maybe Arnie Slot will be a disaster and Liverpool will quickly drop down the league but basically those three are well set to be 1-3rd for many seasons now.

Not like we can even spend that much this summer with all the FFP reports so more a case of retaining as much of this squad as we can, welcoming the long term injured back in August and then boxing clever and getting in 2-3 higher quality players in.

Precisely.

We shouldn't be targeting top 3.....we should be targeting the stats that will take us to top 3......if we trim 10-20 goals off the conceded goals column that will have us stronger....even if we land in the same place 4th, we will be stronger and more convincing.

We have conceded 3 goals or more in 8 league games and of the 10 we lost only 3 games were below 3 goals conceded.....it tells a story.

We have clearly faded and the earlier in the season Aston Villa would have beaten Olympiacos, I am sure.

This is not a criticism, because under the circumstances,( squad size and injuries) we had no right to finish 4th, it was a phenomenal feat....this is purely an observation.

Chelsea, Spurs, ManU and Newcastle, will be more formidable next season......We will need to concede less, to stand still, that's my point.

I have been disappointed, in some of the work of our seasoned defenders.....Tyrone has surely been missed.

Some folk allude to the argument that if we done better, we would be in the top 3....that is completely missing the point. 

you could take 15 goals conceded hypothetically speaking from the games we lost, and still lost the just the same..... we are conceding too many ( fact)

Improving is not always, league position, becoming more convincing, is improving......We all know the many reasons, why that wasn't so, just saying we have a way to go, and to me the work is clear.....Our goals for is not bad, but still a tad short, so no complaints from me if that's worked on....but I am adamant, where the crucial work is needed.

one CDM of ilk in a squad....is not enough for an ambitious squad.

PS The targets should be eliminating the high scoring defeats, and maintaining or improving slightly our scoring rate....Then see where it takes us.

pps I don't know who the defensive coach is, but he needs to work on it.

 

Edited May 20 by TRO

[PaulC]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

I didn't say it wasn't convincing me.....what I said was the " unconvinced"

but let's get real here, despite a great season, we have limped over the line....since that home drubbing to Spurs, we have won 3, so to suggest the Palace game is a one off, is disingenuous.

I have wallowed in this season, of watching quite possibly the best game for years against City, and following it up against Arsenal......but overall we have conceded too many goals, to get too carried away.

along with us, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and Man U who will all be looking at tightening up, in order to progress.

Spurs are deemed Spursy, and yet they have conceded the same amount of goals as us.....we are a bit Spursy too.

Consistency is the goal we pursue, and yes there are pointers, like not losing back to back, that suggest we are getting there, but other pointers suggest, we have much work to do...particularly defensively.

Perhaps it's not a good time, to point these things out......but when the dust has settled, I am sure Unai, will address them.

We certainly won our block of 4 to 8, but if we want to break in to the top 3, we have some way to go.

 

 

It's a huge  challenge next season and everybody is expecting us to falter and now we have to reign in on the spending at a time we are very attractive to players to join. I'm.sure we will find some value for money players but to challenge against Eurioean greats and in the league too is going to be hard. So I expect a little dip in league position..to finish 6th like Newcastle and to qualify out of the group stage in the champions league would be success imo..just don't want to finish bottom of group like Newcastle

 

Edited May 20 by PaulC

[Zatman]

We finished 7th best defence in the league. Nearly all defences are bad these days

[TRO]

1 hour ago, El Segundo said:

It's interesting that after first 19 games of the season we are in 4th place.  But for the second 19 games of the season we are 9th, behind Man Utd (8th) , Spurs (7th) Palace (6th) Newcastle (5th) and Chelsea (4th).   After the brilliant calendar year in 2023 over two half seasons , I'd say we've been "limping" for a while.  Some of it will be down to the extra European matches (none of the other teams mentioned had European football in the second half of the season) with tiredness and injuries clearly taking their toll.   But other teams also had injuries, arguably even worse affected  in the cases of Newcastle and Chelsea, and some had longer runs in the EFL Cup and FA Cup.   I think there is evidence that a few of the better coaches know how to counter Emery's system. We've seen Newcastle, Chelsea (Cup), Spurs and Olympiakos beat us at VP with intensive high pressing and late runners past the high line exploiting our weaknesses,  and Palace did it effectively yesterday albeit against a lethargic version of Villa wearing their flip-flops.    We've also developed an alarming habit of conceding from set pieces and crosses.   

I love Emery to bits but I think it's not unreasonable for some to be "unconvinced" nor to say the second half of the season has not been that convincing.   Ok it's the whole season that counts but you also need to consider trends and momentum.  Next season will be tougher because that Chelsea team have started to realise their potential and  if they keep Pochetino or get another elite manager, they're going to be right up there.    Newcastle, if they have more luck with injuries, will challenge and it's hard to imagine Man Yew being as poor as they've been this year again.                 

I agree.

It's a difficult conversation to have right now, because everyone wants to rejoice at champions league( and rightly so).....My observations are being made on the basis, I want us to sustain this form, not be peaks and troughs, moving forward.

Its clear to me, certain players, with mainly defensive Nous, has hurt us badly, and in my humble view, has affected adversely some of the offensive players form, now that might sound paradoxical to some, but I believe that.

I am all for playing out from the back, and choosing CBs with the skills to do it, but we must have some dominant souls too, who can gobble up aerial balls and send headers out to start attacks.....we are puny in the air, without Mings.

Just to prove your point, the form guide says Last 12  we was 11th.....last 10 we was 11th.....last 8 we was 11th.....last 6 we was 10th and the last 4 we was 17th.

Now if it is tiredness, I am in no place to argue......and if its injuries, I am in no place to argue either......but I still feel the balance is not quite right, in the context of certain attributes a team needs are missing.

I am well aware, that Unai has not had much time to mould this squad and it's still, very much the work of his predecessors, so I am hoping that, Monchi and Unai, get the right players in, and I don't necessarily mean big fee signings.

I have seen plenty of players this season, who many would not link with us, but nevertheless, have given us a hard time.....We have some very good players already, I think it needs a more pragmatic approach this time....Athleticism and Industry is vital...runners who thrive on it, and not see it as a chore.....we need some variety in our player types.

Edited May 20 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

It's a huge  challenge next season and everybody is expecting us to falter and now we have to reign in on the spending at a time we are very attractive to players to join. I'm.sure we will find some value for money players but to challenge against Eurioean greats and in the league too is going to be hard. So I expect a little dip in league position..to finish 6th like Newcastle and to qualify out of the group stage in the champions league would be success imo..just don't want to finish bottom of group like Newcastle

 

What we have achieved this season, is phenomenal, but it can just as easy paper over the cracks of some issues.

In some of the games, where we have been pummeled, there are clear signs to the discerning eye, how easy the opposition has found it to breach us.

We need to remind ourselves, we have one the best goalkeepers around.....so to concede 61 goals, needs attention.....It's not even fair on the offensive players, to concede with such gay abandon at times.

I have every faith in Unai, why wouldn't I......but facts don't lie, We need to be far more organised without the ball.

Fulham, Brighton, Everton, Wolves, Brentford, Crystal Palace are in our territory for goals against.....Nottingham Forest have conceded 6 more than us in 17th place.....it also showcases what a remarkable job the attack has done.

It's simply not sustainable to concede that many and have lofty ambitions like we do......Champions league, you have to be miserly at the back, whilst maintaining a healthy threat, going forward.

I think we have a fair bit of work to do this Summer, but not necessarily involving big sums.....prudent business is required.

Losing games by big margins is not the club to be in.

 

 

Edited May 20 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Xela said:

Have the summer off mate. Enjoy the sun and relax, we finished 4th. 

Yesterdays result means absolutely nothing in relation to next season. It'll be forgotten about in a day or two. 

Every result means something.....The top 3 have not built their philosophy on that basis....mentality, which is hard to indoctrinate in to a group of Athletes, is not built, on " that game didn't matter".....of course it matters.

did Liverpool turn up half soaked, with basically nothing to play for?......look its gone, and the season, is what folk want to party on.....but let's not kid ourselves, it don't matter.

This approach is what had us in the doldrums for 15 to 20 years, where managers queued up to roll that one out.

UE will in the confines of his own space, not be happy with that, despite accepting it, as an arduous and demanding season.

I am not saying it was a disgrace, but I am equally, not accepting it as ok.....1 or 2 nil yes......but a pummeling, no, definitely not.

The Newcastle result on day one, has not been forgotten, so this one is unlikely to be too.....The Spurs debacle still stings too. 

Sure the week where we outplayed Man City, and followed up with a superb performance was fantastic, and shows at our best, we are formidable....but consistency is key( in our play)....and I don't mean winning every game.

Look some will say, you are only as good as your worst game......Like a chain is only as strong as its weakest link....so we need some balance.

We will all enjoy a good summer, and look forward with optimism......That goes without saying.

UTV

 

 

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Don’t care. Job already done. Wouldn’t mind a few of those Palace players though. 

They wouldn't fit in to our system......they run too much.

[TRO]

19 hours ago, duke313 said:

Didn’t get seeing it, how bad were we?

 

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said:

The reality of this team and it is a team more than a squad, is that we have massively overachieved this season, with all things considered.

That's exactly why the defeats hurt so much because for a long time they were the norm and then they weren't at all because our first eleven excelled for long periods during this season!

Unsurprisingly, the second string players aren't as good and it has showed. Big time. To my mind, we very obviously need a deeper squad because the drop off is too big.

We got away with it this season by over performing, but that is pretty unlikely two years in a row. If deepening the squad with quality is unlikely, so is us producing similar results next year.

I think the essence of the disappointment, to those that are disappointed, and not those off renewing their passorts.....is the manner and magnitude of the defeat, we wasn't just beat, we was outplayed.

Look, no one is raging or pulling their hair out.....it's just not nice to concede 5, when it's not the first time, and conceding 6 in a European double leg, was not  encouraging either.

The objective is done, granted and the disappointing final game, will only be disappointing to those fans who want to be....if some can ignore it, great for them.

Edited May 20 by TRO

[PaulC]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the essence of the disappointment, to those that are disappointed, and not those off renewing their passorts.....is the manner and magnitude of the defeat, we wasn't just beat, we was outplayed.

Look, no one is raging or pulling their hair out.....it's just not nice to concede 5, when it's not the first time, and conceding 6 in a European double leg, was not  encouraging either.

The objective is done, granted and the disappointing final game, will only be disappointing to those fans who want to be....if some can ignore it, great for them.

If it is a one off end of season, Job done type performance that's fine. We did have a lot of players misses and I don't rate Lenglet.  We have so much to look forward to but its a but like the 76/77 side that finished 4th. Scored loads of goals and conceded loads. I'm sure like Saunders did Emery will fix it.  

This journey with Emery may not be a steady line of progression. It might take a while. 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, PaulC said:

If it is a one off end of season, Job done type performance that's fine. We did have a lot of players misses and I don't rate Lenglet.  We have so much to look forward to but its a but like the 76/77 side that finished 4th. Scored loads of goals and conceded loads. I'm sure like Saunders did Emery will fix it.  

This journey with Emery may not be a steady line of progression. It might take a while. 

Me too Paul.

[briny_ear]

The thing that annoyed me most about this result is that, after a fantastic season of achievement way above anything that has been seen for the past 20 years at least, it gave a free pass to the gloomsters, the “we’ve been punching above  our weight”, “it will all fall to pieces next season, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs Man U, even Palace, will outdo us (like they were slated to do this season BTW)”, I love Emery BUT…” type of commentators, to come out in full force and cast a dark shadow over the whole of the summer.

I really hoped the actual reality of achieving fourth place - on absolute and undisputed merit, as the Guardian commented - would have allowed such commentators to have a good restful snooze this summer but no, the stupid sods only had to go and lose 0-5 in a meaningless match when they were no doubt still badly hung over if not pissed. Thus the theory of disintegration and decay has been given a fresh impetus. 

Thanks a bunch guys.

[El Segundo]

3 hours ago, Zatman said:

We finished 7th best defence in the league. Nearly all defences are bad these days

True but if  Emery's aim is to get top three then we'll need to be close to their defensive records, which are much better than ours.  Our goals conceded is more than double Arsenal's and the top three have only lost 3,5 and 4 games respectively.  We've lost 10.    

[El Segundo]

59 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

The thing that annoyed me most about this result is that, after a fantastic season of achievement way above anything that has been seen for the past 20 years at least, it gave a free pass to the gloomsters, the “we’ve been punching above  our weight”, “it will all fall to pieces next season, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs Man U, even Palace, will outdo us (like they were slated to do this season BTW)”, I love Emery BUT…” type of commentators, to come out in full force and cast a dark shadow over the whole of the summer.

I really hoped the actual reality of achieving fourth place - on absolute and undisputed merit, as the Guardian commented - would have allowed such commentators to have a good restful snooze this summer but no, the stupid sods only had to go and lose 0-5 in a meaningless match when they were no doubt still badly hung over if not pissed. Thus the theory of disintegration and decay has been given a fresh impetus. 

Thanks a bunch guys.

It's not just based on yesterday though is it?  My point is based on half a season's results, 19 games.   Over that not insignificant period, those teams you mentioned have already outdone us.  We were brilliant first half of the season and it was enough to get us over the line despite the much poorer second half.    It's not mutually exclusive to be delighted and excited that we got CL qualification,  and deserved it over the full season, but also be realistic enough to know that trend over the second half of the season has been downward, and we need ways to reverse it.    That's where I'm at.  I don't think that's being a "gloomster" I think it's acknowledging facts.