Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Brentford

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Emery admitted himself he was at fault in regards to them having so much space on that left side. The defence has a unit has to be questioned in regards to the inexplicable nine minutes. The frightening thing is, you could almost predict that 3rd goal, a mixture of panic, no discipline and ball - watching, which, at that level is criminal. 

it was bordering on inevitable.

I turned to the mrs ( fan like me) and said at 2-0....clean sheet will do me now......famous last words.

I have a worry Sheepy for an appetite for standing off in this team, particularly after an impressive scoring spree...I know we all see things differently, but I do watch the top 3 a fair bit, and I don't see that trait in them.....The next 3 down are a bit susceptible to it.

[sheepyvillian]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

it was bordering on inevitable.

I turned to the mrs ( fan like me) and said at 2-0....clean sheet will do me now......famous last words.

I have a worry Sheepy for an appetite for standing off in this team, particularly after an impressive scoring spree...I know we all see things differently, but I do watch the top 3 a fair bit, and I don't see that trait in them.....The next 3 down are a bit susceptible to it.

It will take time to eradicate that consistent lack of attention in the game. The top 3 are where they are because of their consistency, without that vital trait it's inevitable that you will fall short of certain targets. Only when we learn the art of proper game management will we be able to reach giddier heights.

[tinker]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

it was bordering on inevitable.

I turned to the mrs ( fan like me) and said at 2-0....clean sheet will do me now......famous last words.

I have a worry Sheepy for an appetite for standing off in this team, particularly after an impressive scoring spree...I know we all see things differently, but I do watch the top 3 a fair bit, and I don't see that trait in them.....The next 3 down are a bit susceptible to it.

Emerys 8teams defend by keeping possession, he has players that do that and some that can put their foot in but they arent great at it, Doug and Tielemans being examples of it but theirs others that are just as bad tbh. Do we change our possession based players for more aggressive ones?

For me we only opened the game up once we had score 2, then we decided to try and score more totally abandoning keeping it at the back and not trying to cut teams apart with risky balls forward,  losing possession and inviting pressure. 

[tinker]

I don't think manure will even get 6th, Chelsea , West Ham and Newcastle are within 3 points of them.

[GlobalVillan]

25 minutes ago, tinker said:

I don't think manure will even get 6th, Chelsea , West Ham and Newcastle are within 3 points of them.

Would be hilarious to see them in the Conference League.

They are far too good for that tinpot competition don't you know....

[Pinebro]

Emery have to do something about players switching off at 2 score leads 

[TRO]

15 hours ago, tinker said:

Emerys 8teams defend by keeping possession, he has players that do that and some that can put their foot in but they arent great at it, Doug and Tielemans being examples of it but theirs others that are just as bad tbh. Do we change our possession based players for more aggressive ones?

For me we only opened the game up once we had score 2, then we decided to try and score more totally abandoning keeping it at the back and not trying to cut teams apart with risky balls forward,  losing possession and inviting pressure. 

I get all that.....but the emboldened bit, should not be not a trade off, the better teams do both....If we can only do one, then, that's an area to work on.

You say we are a possession based team, yes, when no one is near us... In the final third we lose the ball regularly. possession based teams in the true sense of the word, keep the ball and when challenged often stay on it......we lose the ball too often and too easily, when challenged.

I don't think Unai needs to change his style of play....the players need to be on it more, and realise that competing for the ball full blooded, is part and parcel of the game.....if they can't, he needs to get players who can.

The shambles of organisation for our 3 conceded goals, was nothing to do with our style of play......It was an abandonment of basic defending and positioning....ball watching and a lack of awareness of where the opponent was.

2 goals is enough to win a game.....going after more, is risky......That risk needs to be managed better than we do. I am not advocating, we can't score more than 2, but we need to be sure the spirit has gone from the opponent, or we still have control of the initiative....We in contrast, so often invite teams back in, via sloppy, passive play.

 

Edited April 8 by TRO

[tinker]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I get all that.....but the emboldened bit, should not be not a trade off, the better teams do both....If we can only do one, then, that's an area to work on.

You say we are a possession based team, yes, when no one is near us... In the final third we lose the ball regularly. possession based teams in the true sense of the word, keep the ball and when challenged often stay on it......we lose the ball too often and too easily, when challenged.

I don't think Unai needs to change his style of play....the players need to be on it more, and realise that competing for the ball full blooded, is part and parcel of the game.....if they can't, he needs to get players who can.

The shambles of organisation for our 3 conceded goals, was nothing to do with our style of play......It was an abandonment of basic defending and positioning....ball watching and a lack of awareness of where the opponent was.

 

I agree things have to change but for me we did abandon our style of play at 2-0 up, we went gung ho ( have done in previous matches)  the game became frantic, like a ping pong ball game from one end to end. This combined with us having players who stand off and aren't good at competing for the ball leads to us losing complete control of the game.

Now I like Doug as a possession based footballer and Tielemans but if we allow the game to descend into a frantic end to end game then they are not the players to have on the pitch, and neither is Torres, Bailey , Diaby or Rogers. Do you see what I mean, we could have players who can do a bit of both but they are hard to come by, Rodri/Rice/ Mac Allister being the ideal examples. FWIW I think Emery will have some players in mind who are more of a mix but I do think we will be seeing one of our possession based players be sold, and tbh I agree,  we need at least one (Kamara is a big miss) 

 

[Pinebro]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

I agree things have to change but for me we did abandon our style of play at 2-0 up, we went gung ho ( have done in previous matches)  the game became frantic, like a ping pong ball game from one end to end. This combined with us having players who stand off and aren't good at competing for the ball leads to us losing complete control of the game.

Now I like Doug as a possession based footballer and Tielemans but if we allow the game to descend into a frantic end to end game then they are not the players to have on the pitch, and neither is Torres, Bailey , Diaby or Rogers. Do you see what I mean, we could have players who can do a bit of both but they are hard to come by, Rodri/Rice/ Mac Allister being the ideal examples. FWIW I think Emery will have some players in mind who are more of a mix but I do think we will be seeing one of our possession based players be sold, and tbh I agree,  we need at least one (Kamara is a big miss) 

 

We didn't go gung ho we just stopped playing and let Brentford do what they wanted without putting pressure on them. Heck, our fullbacks made no effort in trying to stop crosses

Edited April 8 by Pinebro

[TomC]

On 07/04/2024 at 03:46, briny_ear said:

That was a great read. So sorry for you that you saw such a clueless performance on your pilgrimage.

Glad you liked Birmingham. You don’t by any chance have a spare $billion or two to help the city become solvent again? 
 

Sounds familiar. I'm a Detroiter. We live in the suburbs, but the city proper went through bankruptcy proceedings (what you would call administration) about seven years ago because the city government could no longer pay its debts. It was a mess. The city owned the art museum and some creditors wanted to liquidate the entire art collection, Van Goghs, Rembrandts, and all, to collect their money. Fortunately, that part didn't happen and the museum has now been spun off as independent so it doesn't happen again.

 

 

[TomC]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

You say we are a possession based team, yes, when no one is near us... In the final third we lose the ball regularly. possession based teams in the true sense of the word, keep the ball and when challenged often stay on it......we lose the ball too often and too easily, when challenged.

I disagree with this. On Saturday, we passed the ball into tight spaces in the box and, when the player realized he wasn't going to get a good shot, we recycled the ball back out.

More to the point, once you get in the final third, I see nothing wrong with taking chances and losing the ball. Clear-cut opportunities are rare in this game. Sometimes you have to take chances.

The reason Man City are so fearsome isn't that they never lose the ball; they do so in the final third rather often (not so much in midfield). It's just that they press so well when they do lose it. When Guardiola came to England, he added a Klopp-style high press to his system.

 

[The Fun Factory]

Still a bit stunned by our collapse at the weekend. Like a nasty return to the bad old days. Didn't seem much communication in the back four the entire match really. Got to sort this out asap.

[TomC]

23 hours ago, TRO said:

I ask the question.....are we  really ready for champions league football, are we really, honestly?

The game is played differently on the continent, and I think that the Conference League has been, and will continue to be, good training for the CL. The first Legia Warsaw match was an education in itself.

Even if we qualify for the CL, I don't expect to win it the first (recent) time. Let's get there and get some experience.

 

[tinker]

1 hour ago, Pinebro said:

We didn't go gung ho we just stopped playing and let Brentford do what they wanted without putting pressure on them. Heck, our fullbacks made no effort in trying to stop crosses

I dont disagree......but we lost the ball to quickly trying to play through balls to score again and then the fullbacks went missing and Carlos had a moment and lost all positional sense, Torres switched off and they started scoring goals, rinse and repeat. 

[imavillan]

just watched motd again and a couple of things of note for there 1st and 3rd goals for me

1st goal. what the hell was Digne doing on that side of the pitch? It just seems bizarre to me as to why he would be over there in open play.

3rd goal. It's a free kick to Brentford and Luiz casually passes the ball back to a Brentford player. Why on earth do that? Just leave the ball where it is and stand over it until the ref tells you to go away. 

 

[briny_ear]

4 hours ago, TomC said:

Sounds familiar. I'm a Detroiter. We live in the suburbs, but the city proper went through bankruptcy proceedings (what you would call administration) about seven years ago because the city government could no longer pay its debts. It was a mess. The city owned the art museum and some creditors wanted to liquidate the entire art collection, Van Goghs, Rembrandts, and all, to collect their money. Fortunately, that part didn't happen and the museum has now been spun off as independent so it doesn't happen again.

 

 

City of Birmingham’s “solution” has been to cut services drastically, virtually wipe out all arts funding and increase its local tax rate (Council Tax) by 21%. Not the greatest of times for brummies!

[TRO]

8 hours ago, tinker said:

I agree things have to change but for me we did abandon our style of play at 2-0 up, we went gung ho ( have done in previous matches)  the game became frantic, like a ping pong ball game from one end to end. This combined with us having players who stand off and aren't good at competing for the ball leads to us losing complete control of the game.

Now I like Doug as a possession based footballer and Tielemans but if we allow the game to descend into a frantic end to end game then they are not the players to have on the pitch, and neither is Torres, Bailey , Diaby or Rogers. Do you see what I mean, we could have players who can do a bit of both but they are hard to come by, Rodri/Rice/ Mac Allister being the ideal examples. FWIW I think Emery will have some players in mind who are more of a mix but I do think we will be seeing one of our possession based players be sold, and tbh I agree,  we need at least one (Kamara is a big miss) 

 

I think Luiz and tielemans are fine, fine players.....but they are not pivots or CDMs......They are deployed there, for their experience.

I am not blaming anyone, we are a victim of WIP, and a cruel injury list.....but moving forward, we have to use some of these games as experience....and I think Unai will.

He's taking it all in.....but can only do something,of significance,  when the window opens up.

I still believe in Tim.....but the role requires a lot of Game IQ, amongst its many things, and that takes time to learn.

I think young players, have an easier time, early on, with certain positions.....CDM requires character and leadership, that takes time to come.

Edited April 8 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, TomC said:

I disagree with this. On Saturday, we passed the ball into tight spaces in the box and, when the player realized he wasn't going to get a good shot, we recycled the ball back out.

More to the point, once you get in the final third, I see nothing wrong with taking chances and losing the ball. Clear-cut opportunities are rare in this game. Sometimes you have to take chances.

The reason Man City are so fearsome isn't that they never lose the ball; they do so in the final third rather often (not so much in midfield). It's just that they press so well when they do lose it. When Guardiola came to England, he added a Klopp-style high press to his system.

 

sorry, I disagree....we don't like traffic, and lose the ball quite regularly in it.....it's in the WIP lIST.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, imavillan said:

just watched motd again and a couple of things of note for there 1st and 3rd goals for me

1st goal. what the hell was Digne doing on that side of the pitch? It just seems bizarre to me as to why he would be over there in open play.

3rd goal. It's a free kick to Brentford and Luiz casually passes the ball back to a Brentford player. Why on earth do that? Just leave the ball where it is and stand over it until the ref tells you to go away. 

 

I think there was a question mark over about 5 players positioning.....Mings does organise us, we miss that, so when some question, will he get back....when he's fit, he walks back in for me....as does Kamara

Edited April 8 by TRO

[imavillan]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think there was a question mark over about 5 players positioning.....Mings does organise us, we miss that, so when some question, will he get back....when he's fit, he walks back in for me....as does Kamara

of course both of them do and Mings has been a far bigger miss than most people would have thought

it still a complete lack of discipline for Digne to be on the oposite side of the pitch (why?) and fro Luiz to pass the ball back to them to allow a quick free kick.