Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Brentford

[TRO]

1 minute ago, imavillan said:

of course both of them do and Mings has been a far bigger miss than most people would have thought

it still a complete lack of discipline for Digne to be on the opposite side of the pitch (why?) and fro Luiz to pass the ball back to them to allow a quick free kick.

I would say, how would Arsenal fair without Gabriel or Saliba....He's been a mammoth miss.

[Sulberto21]

I love it when people compare us with the top 3 in fact any of the top 6 or Newcastle. The top 6 who have locked away any new competition and are able to spend vastly more than us. Newcastle who have a bottomless pit of money and dodgy deals to fall back upon. 

Defenders that cost 50m plus (Man City) , CDM’s costing £100m + and yet we’re only 10 points off top and still in with a shout of top 4 / CL qualification. 

These clubs have monopolised the top 6 positions for the last decade or so but for a few exceptions (Leicester failed and got relegated). Newcastle broke their monopoly on CL qualification but how much did they spend? 

Our Upper mid table squad is on the brink of CL qualification and they are wobbling slightly due to mental fatigue and the fact a lot of them haven’t been this high in the league ever. We need a win or two to get the confidence back and see us over the line. 

Saturday showed the effect of not being able to compete financially with these clubs. A decent CDM would have helped. Which means Dougie gets rested and McGinn in the middle or Tielemens alongside. 

Another good RB and Konsa plays in the centre. And Pau or Carlos get rotated when needed. Under Slippy winning mentality G we lose that game. 

Not having a settled line up is hurting us. When we did we were hardly conceding any chances. 

But we came back to draw. So maybe these guys have got a bit more character than the reams and reams of the same posts people are giving them credit for. 

In the summer regardless if we get CL the same 6 clubs will spend and offer more wages than us. 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, Sulberto21 said:

I love it when people compare us with the top 3 in fact any of the top 6 or Newcastle. The top 6 who have locked away any new competition and are able to spend vastly more than us. Newcastle who have a bottomless pit of money and dodgy deals to fall back upon. 

Defenders that cost 50m plus (Man City) , CDM’s costing £100m + and yet we’re only 10 points off top and still in with a shout of top 4 / CL qualification. 

These clubs have monopolised the top 6 positions for the last decade or so but for a few exceptions (Leicester failed and got relegated). Newcastle broke their monopoly on CL qualification but how much did they spend? 

Our Upper mid table squad is on the brink of CL qualification and they are wobbling slightly due to mental fatigue and the fact a lot of them haven’t been this high in the league ever. We need a win or two to get the confidence back and see us over the line. 

Saturday showed the effect of not being able to compete financially with these clubs. A decent CDM would have helped. Which means Dougie gets rested and McGinn in the middle or Tielemens alongside. 

Another good RB and Konsa plays in the centre. And Pau or Carlos get rotated when needed. Under Slippy winning mentality G we lose that game. 

Not having a settled line up is hurting us. When we did we were hardly conceding any chances. 

But we came back to draw. So maybe these guys have got a bit more character than the reams and reams of the same posts people are giving them credit for. 

In the summer regardless if we get CL the same 6 clubs will spend and offer more wages than us. 

Thank you. This is very much the post I have been trying to compose for the past couple of days.

When you think that our key midfield general was recruited to play for us in the Championship, and at least four of our regular squad were brought in before our first season back in the Premier League, it is verging on a miracle that we have been pressing for CL football all season and, despite the handwringing here, are still in with a shout. 

And yet I am reading criticism that we don’t have a player like Rodri or Rice in the side. Well, no… can anyone think why not?

BTW, while I am in full rant, I would like to challenge the line much used here that we keep giving away 2-0 leads. We have only lost one match this season from a 2-0 lead (Man U). We have been involved in four games where we have been pulled back from 2-0 to 2-2 and our record in those is pl4 w2 d1 l1.

So whatever our problems this season, throwing away 2-0 leads is not exactly at the forefront.

Edited April 9 by briny_ear

[markavfc40]

Last two posts by @briny_earand @Sulberto21 have been excellent. Some of us need to give our heads a wobble and put where we are into the perspective of who are competing against, where we were just 18 months ago and how far we have come in the last 5 years. It is remarkable what we are doing at present and what we are on the verge of potentially achieving this season.

Do we have issues? of course we do but I feel they are blown out of all proportion. As mentioned in the previous post apparently we have an issue with throwing away two nil leads yet it has only happened twice this season and only one of those resulted in a loss. Also some seem to think we have a poor defensive record yet we have the joint 7th best defensive record in the league all whilst being without Mings for the whole season, Torres for 2 months, Moreno for 3 months, our best defensive midfielder since January and also decent spells missing Konsa, Digne, Cash and Carlos. On the flip side though and what rarely gets mentioned is that we are the 4th highest scorers in the division. 

Regardless of what happens from here on in this season will have already exceeded my expectations and should have exceeded any supporters realistic ambitions. With a fully fit squad I'd have hoped to be competing for a top 6-7 finish (and Europa league place) coupled with a decent cup run. With the horrific luck with injuries we have had though we should probably be lingering in mid table. 

Edited April 9 by markavfc40

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

I love it when people compare us with the top 3 in fact any of the top 6 or Newcastle. The top 6 who have locked away any new competition and are able to spend vastly more than us. Newcastle who have a bottomless pit of money and dodgy deals to fall back upon. 

Defenders that cost 50m plus (Man City) , CDM’s costing £100m + and yet we’re only 10 points off top and still in with a shout of top 4 / CL qualification. 

These clubs have monopolised the top 6 positions for the last decade or so but for a few exceptions (Leicester failed and got relegated). Newcastle broke their monopoly on CL qualification but how much did they spend? 

Our Upper mid table squad is on the brink of CL qualification and they are wobbling slightly due to mental fatigue and the fact a lot of them haven’t been this high in the league ever. We need a win or two to get the confidence back and see us over the line. 

Saturday showed the effect of not being able to compete financially with these clubs. A decent CDM would have helped. Which means Dougie gets rested and McGinn in the middle or Tielemens alongside. 

Another good RB and Konsa plays in the centre. And Pau or Carlos get rotated when needed. Under Slippy winning mentality G we lose that game. 

Not having a settled line up is hurting us. When we did we were hardly conceding any chances. 

But we came back to draw. So maybe these guys have got a bit more character than the reams and reams of the same posts people are giving them credit for. 

In the summer regardless if we get CL the same 6 clubs will spend and offer more wages than us. 

None of that can be contested.....but you are barking up the wrong tree.

The goals we conceded in that mad 9 minutes, and moreover the manner in which they were conceded, was a poor showing for an International class back four.....Those 4 defenders are no slouches, so don't make out we are second class citizens in the transfer market... and the aforementioned clubs hold the advantage.....We have already seen off, Arsenal and Man city at home.....with clean sheets, so don't spill the bile, about a case for low expectation.... we was playing Brentford by the way, dominating possession and cruising.

Your argument is valid, for some other kind of debate....but not this one.

Ollie Watkins himself, came out (Brave Lad) and spelled out, what he was miffed by.....Unai Emery, was honest enough to claim responsibility.....but it was a collective calamity, and not for the first time either.

You can talk about the big picture, all you like, and it's great solace to do so....but some of us are concerned we don't throw away, all that good stuff you mention.

Some say Brentford fought back, because they are in a relegation fight...oh bully for them......what about our incentive of a Champions league place.

You talk about confidence, we was cruising in that game, all the confidence in the world was there.....what happened was, we stopped competing. and by doing that invited them back in.

For sure. we can't dwell on it....but don't try to make out, those that are irked by that collapse, are being harsh.....even the ex Pro's like Gabby endorse Ollies undoubted Ire.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Thank you. This is very much the post I have been trying to compose for the past couple of days.

When you think that our key midfield general was recruited to play for us in the Championship, and at least four of our regular squad were brought in before our first season back in the Premier League, it is verging on a miracle that we have been pressing for CL football all season and, despite the handwringing here, are still in with a shout. 

And yet I am reading criticism that we don’t have a player like Rodri or Rice in the side. Well, no… can anyone think why not?

BTW, while I am in full rant, I would like to challenge the line much used here that we keep giving away 2-0 leads. We have only lost one match this season from a 2-0 lead (Man U). We have been involved in four games where we have been pulled back from 2-0 to 2-2 and our record in those is pl4 w2 d1 l1.

So whatever our problems this season, throwing away 2-0 leads is not exactly at the forefront.

Surprised you have fell for it Brin.....but I respect, it's your opinion.

We have conceded 49 goals this season in the league....3 more than last season with 6 games to go....surrendering leads, even when we have won, is a concern, and it questions the very notion, that we are convincing.

The whole season has been built around, a very competent offensive style, and the current league position is astonishing, overall....but that is not the debate, conceding soft, sloppy goals when we are cruising, is the crux of the debate.

Even though, it may not seem as bad as its painted, we have many fans with short and well bitten finger nails....its unnecessary.....We all acknowledge key players like Kamara and Mings, are a contributing factor to all that...but never the less an International back four should not react to  3 attacks like that.....in Unais own words....There's no excuse, endorsed by his centre forward, who equally questions the competency behind the collapse.

There is undoubtedly a view that can paint a bright picture, of what we have achieved this season, and I would accept the overall picture is bright.....but if anyone questions, validity of some fans, noticing a few flaws, they are simply in denial.

Oh and by the way....I am not miffed at my expectation for the season ,being challenged as I predicted we would finish 6th, so my judgment could be trumped.

The case of not having a Rodri or a Rice, is once again disappointingly misinterpreted......It's not an expectation, more of a target, to what we can aim for in the future.....We already have a pretty good CDM, who is sadly suffering from a long term Injury, and his absence has affected other members of the teams performances.....but to have only one in a squad of 25, is imo a area for improvement.

Personally, I would not insult the intelligence of discerning fans, to suggest, that the mad 9 minutes, was condoned by the manager, or our centre Forward....they too, was a angry as we are.

 

Edited April 9 by TRO

[TRO]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Last two posts by @briny_earand @Sulberto21 have been excellent. Some of us need to give our heads a wobble and put where we are into the perspective of who are competing against, where we were just 18 months ago and how far we have come in the last 5 years. It is remarkable what we are doing at present and what we are on the verge of potentially achieving this season.

Do we have issues? of course we do but I feel they are blown out of all proportion. As mentioned in the previous post apparently we have an issue with throwing away two nil leads yet it has only happened twice this season and only one of those resulted in a loss. Also some seem to think we have a poor defensive record yet we have the joint 7th best defensive record in the league all whilst being without Mings for the whole season, Torres for 2 months, Moreno for 3 months, our best defensive midfielder since January and also decent spells missing Konsa, Digne, Cash and Carlos. On the flip side though and what rarely gets mentioned is that we are the 4th highest scorers in the division. 

Regardless of what happens from here on in this season will have already exceeded my expectations and should have exceeded any supporters realistic ambitions. With a fully fit squad I'd have hoped to be competing for a top 6-7 finish (and Europa league place) coupled with a decent cup run. With the horrific luck with injuries we have had though we should probably be lingering in mid table. 

The injuries have undoubtedly played a huge part in our dip in form....and No One is contesting that, so it's a moot point.

Back to the topic.....The game.

We have one of the best Goalkeepers in the World, We can still call on one of the best strikers in the league......We have and International back four, and an International midfield.....We have one who plays for Brazil, and another who shone against England Recently, and the fresh  return of an established Scotland International....We have a winger, who is having a great season, and has caught the eye of many fans in the League......That is what we had available, on the day.

We started brightly, and soon took control, showing the true worth of our league position. We soon compiled a huge possession stat, once again Commensurate with our league standing, and overall seasonal form, ( not recent form)....In short, we was cruising, with absolutely no danger whatsoever.....What happened in the mad 9 minutes, was clear to see from the stills, that some podcasters produced....and it was alien, to the reputation of our defenders...totally, unexpected, from International class players.

To endorse those comments....The manager and the No 9, made references to it....one taking responsibility, like the man he is.....and the other, refusing to accept it, as it happens, on the contrary, Ollie was clearly irked by the collapse....suffice to say, rescued a point away from complete embarrassment.

We cannot dwell on it, we have to move on, I am accepting of that....but to deny it, in the first place, is wide of the mark imo.

 

[markavfc40]

41 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

We have conceded 49 goals this season in the league....3 more than last season with 6 games to go....surrendering leads, even when we have won, is a concern, and it questions the very notion, that we are convincing.

 

We've also scored 15 more goals than we did in the whole of last season with 6 games still to go. It suggests that perhaps we are a little more attacking leaving us a little more vulnerable defensively, or given the defensive injuries we have had that we have suffered in that regard whereas our forward players have in the main stayed relatively fit. 

The above doesn't excuse individual or collective errors within games but it possibly goes some way to explaining the bigger picture. 

In an ideal world I'd love us to score tons of goals and rarely concede but given the option of being tight defensively and winning games 1-0 or being a bit more adventurous/open and seeing 3/4/5/6 goals a game and coming out on top more often than not I'll take the latter every day of the week. 

[TRO]

40 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

We've also scored 15 more goals than we did in the whole of last season with 6 games still to go. It suggests that perhaps we are a little more attacking leaving us a little more vulnerable defensively, or given the defensive injuries we have had that we have suffered in that regard whereas our forward players have in the main stayed relatively fit. 

The above doesn't excuse individual or collective errors within games but it possibly goes some way to explaining the bigger picture. 

In an ideal world I'd love us to score tons of goals and rarely concede but given the option of being tight defensively and winning games 1-0 or being a bit more adventurous/open and seeing 3/4/5/6 goals a game and coming out on top more often than not I'll take the latter every day of the week. 

The world we move in ( football) will never be ideal.....you have to fight for it....everything we get, has to be fought for.

I will be amongst the first to accept we are WIP.....and that is the perspective, I will apply.

I will also accept the reasons derived from injuries....but the manager is quick to dispel excuses, too.

I acknowledge the fabulous return of our attack, but I refuse to accept its a trade off, for the future.....it has effectively masked over the defensive frailties. it needs to be said, that game we fielded an experienced and well renowned back line, with an international midfield to boot.

I am all for goal scoring and the entertainment it brings, but to progress, our defensive work needs to improve....It does not go unnoticed the improvement Arsenal have made, and it is primarily in defence, and I am not comparing us with them....just using a template to aim at.

I want to make this clear, I am not opposed to the way we play, or the way the manager sets us up.....for large periods in this game, everything was Hunky Dory....I have no issue with the high-line or playing out from the back....but I do despise, capitulation, and poor defensive organisation.....and I am not suggesting, we should be as good as the top 3.....but if we cannot learn from them, and work in the future to emulate them....we are playing lip service to ambition.....and I don't think the manager.

Mark, I am not debating Offense against Defence.....we need both, and game management when we are 2-0 up is paramount.....the traits in this game, was not a one off, and it's disingenuous to present it as such....Ollie would not have said what he said, if it was just an isolated situation, he was clearly miffed.....and Brave too, to say so.

It's much easier to stop goals, than score them.....so it would follow, to get that right, as a good place to work on.

We have gained many friends this season, with fabulous displays, i.e Man City and Arsenal.....where we showed just how good we can be, so some of the mitigation, being rolled out, in this game....is excuses or euphemisms imo.

anyway.....I am leaving this game behind, with the 9 minutes of dispiriting defending.....and look forward to a resolute and upbeat response against Lille.

UTV

Edited April 9 by TRO

[Sulberto21]

@TRO

we did see off Man City and Arsenal with clean sheets - but that was with a very settled team. Since the new year we’ve had to chop and change our back line and midfield.

Im surprised for someone who goes on about the Ron Saunders years that you wouldn’t consider the injuries and the mental fatigue that is setting in. 

If we get CL one or two of the players will be told to find other clubs as our Elite manager will know they’re not capable. 

As our Elite manager says it’s a process. And we’re ahead of schedule.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

@TRO

we did see off Man City and Arsenal with clean sheets - but that was with a very settled team. Since the new year we’ve had to chop and change our back line and midfield.

Im surprised for someone who goes on about the Ron Saunders years that you wouldn’t consider the injuries and the mental fatigue that is setting in. 

If we get CL one or two of the players will be told to find other clubs as our Elite manager will know they’re not capable. 

As our Elite manager says it’s a process. And we’re ahead of schedule.

We was playing Brentford, not Real Madrid. 

The standard of player we had out....should not collapse like that, and that is the issue.

No excuse culture.....The managers words, not mine.

Edited April 10 by TRO

[Sulberto21]

52 minutes ago, TRO said:

We was playing Brentford, not Real Madrid. 

The standard of player we had out....should not collapse like that, and that is the issue.

No excuse culture.....The managers words, not mine.

Yes and? The same Brentford that created over 30 opportunities against Manure. The team that you stated (loosely) that caused us disruption. Why didn’t Brentford created 30 chances against us if we’re so bad defensively? 

Brentford are below where they should be due to injuries and a misdemeanour from their star striker. 

9 minutes of madness and they took full advantage. Even then their first goal was the mother of all flukes. 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

Yes and? The same Brentford that created over 30 opportunities against Manure. The team that you stated (loosely) that caused us disruption. Why didn’t Brentford created 30 chances against us if we’re so bad defensively? 

Brentford are below where they should be due to injuries and a misdemeanour from their star striker. 

9 minutes of madness and they took full advantage. Even then their first goal was the mother of all flukes. 

That is all well and good....but it doesn't address the issue...That 9 minutes was unacceptable.

and you have failed to acknowledge it.

Edited April 10 by TRO

[fruitvilla]

We played 90 minutes of good football and had a god-awful 9 minutes.

The universe is chaotic ... 

[DaveAV1]

On 06/04/2024 at 19:24, TRO said:

Dave....Then you should know better than anyone......You and I was not brought up on that defending....Ron would turn in his grave, watching that puny offering, from 2-0 to 2-3

It was truly shocking.....

I don't think it's fair, to deny any fan a moan after that debacle of a collapse.

We all have to move on, because we have no choice, but to dismiss that, with any mitigation, is a bit rich, for me.

I’m sure you understand what I’m aluring to my old pal. I completely understand and agree that people will complain after a poor performance of any kind but for me there are limits and a modicum of support should be aforded, after all it’s a unique form of entertainment and our support is all we have to contribute, since I doubt many of us, me definitely, aren’t good enough to put on a pair of boots,! Apologies to anyone offended,  who could do a job for us when called upon. I’m not sure I have the energy to run the length of the tunnel these days myself!!