Teale's 'tache Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 45 minutes ago, MrBlack said: I dont understand why we care about the cost saving of a brand evolution rather than redesign is a factor. Those costs don't affect our FFP position in the PL or the wage ratio requirements of Uefa. Why save money here, its not like we can then spent it on players instead anyway? Going the full rebrand route let's us drop what we had, have a new "crisp" version that gets a associated with our first season back the champions league and we use it to build our reputation on. Keep the crappy yellow on light blue and we then are forever cursed with a logo that doesnt stand out from its background and curses us for decades more. I don't get it. I struggle a little with this as well, but I'd guess our owners have a budget of what they are willing to spend on us year on year, like any of the other businesses they run, and we have to be at least near that budget. They may have near-infinite wealth between them, but they don't afford us an infinite budget, which is perfectly reasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I struggle a little with this as well, but I'd guess our owners have a budget of what they are willing to spend on us year on year, like any of the other businesses they run, and we have to be at least near that budget. They may have near-infinite wealth between them, but they don't afford us an infinite budget, which is perfectly reasonable. It is reasonable. But if so, maybe a very strong fan reaction to what we get could encourage them that actually it would be better to spend a bit more on this area. The benefits are there, and maybe they're not fully cost positive even in the long term, but the intangible aspect of a genuinely world class iconic brand should make them see that yellow on light blue (with drop shadow to fix it) is not the way to go. Edited January 8 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I’ve just looked back at what was said after the FAB in June that Heck attended. These are comments that were released by My Old Man Said at the time: “The badge though is the big talking point. The new badge that was created under Purslow will be rolled out on the shirts, but held back from any other branding. In short, Heck isn’t too impressed by the potential of the badge and its lack of uniqueness compared to the rest of the Premier League…. While the badge is fine on a 7/10 kind of level, Heck and the owners are very much looking at the big picture. It is not exactly differentiating the club as unique or special to a potential new international fanbase. Heck stated in the meeting he wanted to see how the badge was received over the season, before making any moves.“ If we take what Heck said at face value to the FAB then his concerns were purely branding based. He also changed his mind very quickly on the timeline for making any moves….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 8 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, avfc1982am said: I'm asking a genuine question. I keep seeing posters(not just yourself) mention how this is a cost saving exercise but I don't see how it can be. All the signage, templates, character positioning will all be different and need to be replaced so I'm just struggling to understand where the savings are coming from. I don't understand it fully. But I think a complete rebrand would involve changing everything. Not just badges, but potentially badges, colours, fonts, presentations, digital assets, merchandise etc etc A new lion and you'd need to change all the symbols of lions, new font you'd have to change everything to match that font. That sign on the stadium becomes not just changing the design of the badge but the words as well. it all piles up. An "evolution" you can get away with a lot less than that. You keep the same colours, same lion, same fonts, same letterheads but swap the badge out etc etc. Essentially the brand remains the same, it's literally just the design of the badge. I posted a couple of days ago that the last refresh of the Lerner badge (the new lion and removing "Prepared" etc) only cost the club £80k. Which is a lot less than a full rebrand would cost us. So my thoughts are that a full rebrand was on the table, Heck saw the cost and scrapped it. However he knew the fans wanted a new crest so he's asked for an "evolution" so that we can get a new crest at the cheapest possible price. The closer it is to the old badge the less they can get away with changing But I admit that is all speculation Edited January 8 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, fightoffyour said: It's quite annoying how much better the same Lerner badge I despised for so long here VERY nice! If it in fact is cost savingz let's encourage them to save money . Just do the above, it's the same shape and all! Edited January 8 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: I’ve just looked back at what was said after the FAB in June that Heck attended. These are comments that were released by My Old Man Said at the time: “The badge though is the big talking point. The new badge that was created under Purslow will be rolled out on the shirts, but held back from any other branding. In short, Heck isn’t too impressed by the potential of the badge and its lack of uniqueness compared to the rest of the Premier League…. While the badge is fine on a 7/10 kind of level, Heck and the owners are very much looking at the big picture. It is not exactly differentiating the club as unique or special to a potential new international fanbase. Heck stated in the meeting he wanted to see how the badge was received over the season, before making any moves.“ If we take what Heck said at face value to the FAB then his concerns were purely branding based. He also changed his mind very quickly on the timeline for making any moves….. Look at their most recent comments… from the Villa Trust… https://villatrust.org.uk/new-aston-villa-crest/ those old comments of his are contradictory to the way he is planning to reveal and decide on this new badge… FAB was not consulted properly on this and it was only shown briefly to them on 20th December, there was no form of consultation for this and I can’t imagine anyone would’ve agreed to it or been a fan… He has gone over their heads and they are planning to lodge a complaint, he has not fully adhered to the rules here… According to Heck, we would monitor the appeal or popularity of the badge - did it get much of chance or any time? Just sounds like made up BS, a “line” or excuse to try n appease or quieten people… And now he wants to force through and release a slightly altered (and inferior) version of the Lerner badge… where is the “potential” or “uniqueness” there? It’s weak and lazy shit. He is making a terrible impression and is coming across as arrogant and ignorant… Edited January 8 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: It's quite annoying how much better the same Lerner badge I despised for so long here VERY nice! If it in fact is cost savingz let's encourage them to save money . Just do the above, it's the same shape and all! There he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 This so called “evolution” is nothing of the sort, weak and lazy. It’s more of a “devolution”… ugly. just cancel it altogether then if we’re trying to save money or make a more sensible and effective alteration like the colours… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 8 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: It's quite annoying how much better the same Lerner badge I despised for so long here VERY nice! If it in fact is cost savingz let's encourage them to save money . Just do the above, it's the same shape and all! It just proves how bad that yellow on light blue combination is. Look at the badge on last season's away kit Apart from the star it's fine (yes I know it should say Aston Villa, but I'm talking design wise) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thabucks Posted January 8 Popular Post Share Posted January 8 The Villa Trust are a bunch of self serving egotists whose voice & opinions mean nothing and imo are a complete waste of space and time … Don’t give two shits what they think tbh and they do speak for me not the majority of the fan base as they like to claim they do 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't understand it fully. But I think a complete rebrand would involve changing everything. Not just badges, but potentially badges, colours, fonts, presentations, digital assets, merchandise etc etc A new lion and you'd need to change all the symbols of lions, new font you'd have to change everything to match that font. That sign on the stadium becomes not just changing the design of the badge but the words as well. it all piles up. An "evolution" you can get away with a lot less than that. You keep the same colours, same lion, same fonts, same letterheads but swap the badge out etc etc. Essentially the brand remains the same, it's literally just the design of the badge. I posted a couple of days ago that the last refresh of the Lerner badge (the new lion and removing "Prepared" etc) only cost the club £80k. Which is a lot less than a full rebrand would cost us. So my thoughts are that a full rebrand was on the table, Heck saw the cost and scrapped it. However he knew the fans wanted a new crest so he's asked for an "evolution" so that we can get a new crest at the cheapest possible price. The closer it is to the old badge the less they can get away with changing But I admit that is all speculation You made the point way better than I did earlier with the examples of the mosaic for instance. The new crest will require less work to incorporate given its only tweaking the shape and not letter spacing etc with the round badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I've posted that badge on my twitter and tagged the club and Chris Heck .. referencing " if it's about cost saving " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, thabucks said: The Villa Trust are a bunch of self serving egotists whose voice & opinions mean nothing and imo are a complete waste of space and time … Don’t give two shits what they think tbh and they do speak for me not the majority of the fan base as they like to claim they do I did wonder you know ( without any inside knowledge) and proposed the question of being interested in knowing what th actual demographic of the likes of FAB/Trust are etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, thabucks said: The Villa Trust are a bunch of self serving egotists whose voice & opinions mean nothing and imo are a complete waste of space and time … Don’t give two shits what they think tbh and they do speak for me not the majority of the fan base as they like to claim they do How are things with you Chris?! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, thabucks said: The Villa Trust are a bunch of self serving egotists whose voice & opinions mean nothing and imo are a complete waste of space and time … Don’t give two shits what they think tbh and they do speak for me not the majority of the fan base as they like to claim they do So do you speak for the majority of the fanbase instead? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything11 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Heck is here for branding and marketing. Not to appease the vocal part of the fanbase. He literally gets paid to do this job whether you like it or not and has a proven track record of doing a good job of it. He has my trust until we sell 0 shirts and the marketing bombs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 12 minutes ago, thabucks said: The Villa Trust are a bunch of self serving egotists Sure let's antagonize groups of Villa fans with different opinions because .. reasons. 12 minutes ago, thabucks said: whose voice & opinions mean nothing and imo are a complete waste of space and time … Don’t give two shits what they think That's according to you. 13 minutes ago, thabucks said: speak for me not the majority of the fan base as they like to claim they do They certainly seem to speak for the vast majority of VillaTalk, why'd you think they don't for most of the fan base? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, thabucks said: You made the point way better than I did earlier with the examples of the mosaic for instance. The new crest will require less work to incorporate given its only tweaking the shape and not letter spacing etc with the round badge. Just to add this I previously posted the below in reply to someone: Quote An example: Imagine for a moment that we have paper sheets we use at the ground to wrap the hot dogs/burgers/pies etc. in, and that paper has a pattern of the Lerner crest on it. Now consider how many of those we might have in stock, 100k? 250k to last a season maybe? Possibly we bought millions a couple of years back thinking the crest wouldn't change for a long time. With a complete rebrand, all that stock goes in the bin, but with an evolution, you can keep using these paper sheets until they run out as the two crests are similar enough to be part of the same brand. Now take that example and apply it to thousands of other lines we have in place and you can see how the cost is less up front and spreads out as the old badge is phased out over several years. They'll likely change the crest in places where it is most visible straight away, but we'll still be seeing the Lerner crest for a few years. In addition to the above, there may be supplier contracts that can be allowed to run their course rather than straight cancelled which would likely involve cost as well. Brand evolutions can be good, and environmentally better as there is less waste, but they depend on the current brand not having glaring issues such as ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 While some want to dismiss the fans I want to remember that the fans are there through thick and thin, whether the lower half of the championship or the top two of the Premier league. I don't think it's right to just dismiss the fans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, BG_Villa_Fan said: Sure let's antagonize groups of Villa fans with different opinions because .. reasons. That's according to you. They certainly seem to speak for the vast majority of VillaTalk, why'd you think they don't for most of the fan base? Well having met a number of the group, and there past history on matters and lack of actions or substance think I’m well positioned to comment on them and know I’m not alone in thinking this. The FAB and VT are way more effective and in sync with the fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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