Galway Lion Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: If we have to get rid of this badge (and I don't really see any reason why we need to), then I'd be happy with a lion that has the words Aston Villa underneath it - no shield, no crest, no badge, just a lion and the words. 100% this . It’s so simple, I don’t understand how they got it so wrong. Turn the lion around and just our name and the lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 (edited) On 12/07/2023 at 14:59, Teale's 'tache said: Okay, I've gone back to my diamond design and refined it a little more. I've added the new lion, and made a few alterations to it to make it more 'rampant', and set it facing in the traditional direction. I don't mind the whole facing forward concept stuff, but to me personally, the lion facing left is just more 'Villa'. I've also removed the star, for the reasons @NurembergVillan has mentioned frequently, and eloquently. I've streamlined further by removing '1874', as it wasn't really needed and would have been unreadable at smaller sizes anyway. Anyway, on with the show... One more, just to show that this design at least is different from the rest of the crests in the Premier League Feel free to tell me I've got the colours wrong, you only like round badges, it doesn't say 'Aston Villa' in full, not adding a star somehow means I've degraded our entire history, it looks like a stonemasons symbol and it's crap. I'll not be listening anyway as I really need to get some work done! Further proof as to how and why I think the last "rebrand" was an almost complete failure. Even if we don't use something like your idea - we should have been exploring more options to really stand out. I think you've done a great job of adding a narrative that supports the concept you have come up with and that narrative (for me) really hits the nail on the head. I like that you've come up with something unique that won't be confused with any other team. I like the fact that the individual components can also be used on their own and still scream Aston Villa at you - i.e. you could remove the AV and just leave the lion and it still works (and is still unique from the other PL "brands"), or you could remove the lion and just have the AV diamond and that would work on its own too (for example you could easily use that and add an image within the diamond such as the face of a new signing and it is 100% clear immediately that the player has signed for Villa). I also like that you can remove (or change up) the colour scheme a bit and it stills look good / unique / easily identifiable. I really hope that whatever Heck and his team do that they really approach the task in the way that you have. I want them to try something bold, different, unique, modern but with a real understanding of Villa, our history, the architecture, etc. Some of the ideas won't work but we should 100% be trying them out. The more I see the new badge the more I hate almost everything about it. It just smacks to me of being a lazy effort done by people who have little understanding of the club that paid lip service to a fans consultation (I am pretty sure than less than 1% of fans would have suggested that the lion should be flipped and that is pretty much THE biggest change that they made). Edited July 13, 2023 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said: I was a little surprised when I saw the new badge in monochrome because I'd done a monochrome version for a kit mock-up, without really giving it any thought, and it seems they went a completely different way with it. Not sure if my way makes it look any better, just interesting how two different designers can see things differently. Ridiculous that they went with the other option over this. I question the sanity of the designer for the monochrome version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: One of the big things in the consultations with the designers was that the club and the team that did the designs were very keen to move away from AV or AVFC - which doesn't 'carry' into foreign markets - it's audio visual equipment FC for them - they were hugely keen to ensure that the whole name went into the badge. They were also happy about this as it's a visually lovely name - an even number of letters in each word, the first and last being the same, makes what should be a great name to work into designs - I think that's true and I think the whole name should always be on the badge. I'd agree that I think I'd like to see the words Aston Villa (and 1874) but I'd be willing to drop them if the brand was strong enough to stand up on its own. If the AV was worked in such a way that it then became an integral part of the design (similar to @Teale's 'tache's efforts {and others}) then it is no longer justs two letters that could be mistaken for anything. VW for example is just two letters that could mean different things - but when combined in the classic Volkswagen arrangement it can only mean one thing in any language. So I wouldn't be averse to only using AV (rather than Aston Villa) if it fully supports the design concept - which it really didn't in the old badge. The more I think about it - the more I think that it is important that our brand / badge / design stand up even when the words Aston Villa are removed. It just seems to give us a whole heap more opportunities for using the brand in multiple settings. Whether that is in the shape of the badge (i.e. enhancing the gaslight concept), or using an AV frame, or uniting fully behind the lion or going completely leftfield and doing more around Villans (although that might look too American and be too big a jump) I don't know. The brand should hold together (with a bit of background knowledge) without the words Aston Villa necessarily being there - I mean you could remove the words Liverpool, Manchester or Newcastle from their badges and you'd still know exactly whose badge it was. In fact in those cases you could blank the entire badge and just display them in silhouette and most people would still know exactly whose badge it was. This is part of why the fact that the lion has been reversed pisses me off so much - why did they feel the need to mess with that? I mean even if the logic is that that is the way our original lion faced (even if it hasn't for most of our history) then surely there should have been some massive narrative explaining this (if there was then apologies for missing it). The circle isn't ours, the font isn't ours, the lion isn't ours (because it faces the wrong way) and the colours aren't uniquely ours either. I really feel we've been badly let down and that we've taken the easy way out - rather than trying to be prepared (see what I did there) to be uniquely Aston Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: If we have to get rid of this badge (and I don't really see any reason why we need to), then I'd be happy with a lion that has the words Aston Villa underneath it - no shield, no crest, no badge, just a lion and the words. That gold one’s a beaut… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Jas10 said: That gold one’s a beaut… New lion please. Its so much better. Old one is all out of proportion with its long fore arms and blobby scaling down to small size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, MrBlack said: New lion please. Its so much better. Old one is all out of proportion with its long fore arms and blobby scaling down to small size. Nope, we’re never gonna agree on this. Sorry I’ve already explained my POV a few times so not going to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 On 12/07/2023 at 13:59, Teale's 'tache said: Okay, I've gone back to my diamond design and refined it a little more. I've added the new lion, and made a few alterations to it to make it more 'rampant', and set it facing in the traditional direction. I don't mind the whole facing forward concept stuff, but to me personally, the lion facing left is just more 'Villa'. I've also removed the star, for the reasons @NurembergVillan has mentioned frequently, and eloquently. I've streamlined further by removing '1874', as it wasn't really needed and would have been unreadable at smaller sizes anyway. Anyway, on with the show... One more, just to show that this design at least is different from the rest of the crests in the Premier League Feel free to tell me I've got the colours wrong, you only like round badges, it doesn't say 'Aston Villa' in full, not adding a star somehow means I've degraded our entire history, it looks like a stonemasons symbol and it's crap. I'll not be listening anyway as I really need to get some work done! Nice improvement to already my favourite concept. I really want to see a version without the horizontal line though, so the AV are more symmetrical and the eye is drawn more to the lion than the A. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: Nope, we’re never gonna agree on this. Sorry I’ve already explained my POV a few times so not going to repeat. You said it looks like it's going thin on top. Which is blatantly wrong. You've obviously not had the misfortune of going bald yourself because that is definitely not going thin. And just look at the arms on the old lion. They're way too long and spindly thin. They're just not good. And the as the scale gets smaller they look even more spindly. The bottom paw looks likes it's been through a mangle. The new one is just... better. Not to mention the definition you can draw from the new one with just a few simple additional marks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: You said it looks like it's going thin on top. Which is blatantly wrong. You've obviously not had the misfortune of going bald yourself because that is definitely not going thin. And just look at the arms on the old lion. They're way too long and spindly thin. They're just not good. And the as the scale gets smaller they look even more spindly. The bottom paw looks likes it's been through a mangle. The new one is just... better. Not to mention the definition you can draw from the new one with just a few simple additional marks. You have your opinion, I have mine. Can’t we just be ok with that? Instead of saying one person is wrong and the other is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Oh man, now you’ve shown it to me again I like it even less and am forced to explain why I like the previous one best again. Classy and iconic. Easily identifiable as Aston Villa. It had presence. I don’t like the new lion at all now really Going off it more and more Again, just my opinion. The club will decide, I hope Heck brings us something we all like… tough one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: Oh man, now you’ve shown it to me again I like it even less and am forced to explain why I like the previous one best again. Classy and iconic. Easily identifiable as Aston Villa. It had presence. I don’t like the new lion at all now really Going off it more and more Again, just my opinion. The club will decide, I hope Heck brings us something we all like… tough one! Thanks. I agree with a lot of what you say, and I was happy with it until I saw the new one. But then the new one came out and exposed all the issues I had with the old one mentioned above. Imv it just looks out of proportion compared with the new one, and no longer looks like a lion to me. I honestly don't see how they'd come up with yet another version that both you and I (not to mention the hundreds of thousands of other fans) agree on. So yes, will be very interesting to see where we end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Club continues to use the standalone old lion in media and around the training ground (glass doors). I, for one, really like it. Don’t see anything wrong with it when it’s miniaturised either. Take away the shield and text and it looks… classy and smart: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Thanks. I agree with a lot of what you say, and I was happy with it until I saw the new one. But then the new one came out and exposed all the issues I had with the old one mentioned above. Imv it just looks out of proportion compared with the new one, and no longer looks like a lion to me. I honestly don't see how they'd come up with yet another version that both you and I (not to mention the hundreds of thousands of other fans) agree on. So yes, will be very interesting to see where we end up. I’m glad we could disagree in a calm and reasonable manner (very rare) rather than resorting to hating each other and spouting various forms of vitriol! Our opinion doesn’t affect anything really and I don’t think it affected this new badge either, we were kind of led this way and with minimal choice or even input. It’s just fun to share opinions and designs but we’re not going to affect anything. I hope Heck employs the right people to bring us a bold and exciting new design that will at least satisfy the vast majority of us. This time, we need it to stick! No more messing, let’s have some stability and consistency! It’s embarrassing to be so undecided and directionless in this sense… however minor an issue it may appear to some… Let’s nail down that identity and stop faffing about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I’m glad we could disagree in a calm and reasonable manner (very rare) rather than resorting to hating each other and spouting various forms of vitriol! Our opinion doesn’t affect anything really and I don’t think it affected this new badge either, we were kind of led this way and with minimal choice or even input. It’s just fun to share opinions and designs but we’re not going to affect anything. I hope Heck employs the right people to bring us a bold and exciting new design that will at least satisfy the vast majority of us. This time, we need it to stick! No more messing, let’s have some stability and consistency! It’s embarrassing to be so undecided and directionless in this sense… however minor an issue it may appear to some… Let’s nail down that identity and stop faffing about! Yup. Old one...new one...different one...whatever it is, it has to be a multi-decade long legacy. It's kind of a joke we've already had as many lions as we have over the past 20 years, so part of me thinks another one makes it even worse and would be bad, the other part of me thinks ...**** it what difference does another one make. So yes....whatever we do, it has to stay around for a long time. Edited July 13, 2023 by MrBlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Yup. Old one...new one...different one...whatever it is, it has to be a multi-decade long legacy. It's kind of a joke we've already had as many lions as we have over the past 20 years, so part of me thinks another one makes it even worse and would be bad, the other part of me thinks ...**** it what difference does another one make. So yes....whatever we do, it has to stay around for a long time. And now we finally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I really like some of the graphic design elements of corporate logos from the 1950's and 1960's. If we really want to stand out and be avante garde, we could go "Mid Century"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 14 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said: I had a quick look at a more 'square' diamond, but I think you lose the 'AV' too much, I did quite a few variations messing around, see below. These variations are great! I think if you can churn out the first row, top right design with our current round badge w 1874 at the bottom instead would be a fantastic design 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted July 14, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2023 On 12/07/2023 at 22:59, Teale's 'tache said: Okay, I've gone back to my diamond design and refined it a little more. I've added the new lion, and made a few alterations to it to make it more 'rampant', and set it facing in the traditional direction. I don't mind the whole facing forward concept stuff, but to me personally, the lion facing left is just more 'Villa'. I've also removed the star, for the reasons @NurembergVillan has mentioned frequently, and eloquently. I've streamlined further by removing '1874', as it wasn't really needed and would have been unreadable at smaller sizes anyway. Anyway, on with the show... One more, just to show that this design at least is different from the rest of the crests in the Premier League Feel free to tell me I've got the colours wrong, you only like round badges, it doesn't say 'Aston Villa' in full, not adding a star somehow means I've degraded our entire history, it looks like a stonemasons symbol and it's crap. I'll not be listening anyway as I really need to get some work done! I've kept away from this thread on purpose. Now that I'm here and catching up on a few things - just had to say I love your diamond AV logo! A real standout amongst all the other PL badges. Well done! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted July 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) I'm both into demanding 'Aston Villa' in full with a lion and no crest, but also agreeing with @allani that if you then take away the name for whatever reason you've just got...a lion. It's our lion, but it's still a lion. It's not really identifiable as our brand for non-Villans unfortunately. I love the AV diamond. Edited July 14, 2023 by fightoffyour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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