Adam2003 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: So a thread has been opened because we made a loss on a player who’s 30 and who didn’t pull up trees whilst here. Ridiculous. Also didn’t “make a loss” on him in terms that matter - £15m is fine for FFP given the amortisation. In fact I bet that’s how the number was agreed. A sensible sale even though I rate Ings and think he’ll keep West Ham up. The question is who comes in… In terms of the original question and “old fashioned” profit I guess depending how you define acquisition of players from other academies it’s either Targett or Chukwuemeka last summer. Edited January 19, 2023 by Adam2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: It would be nice to get the club to a place where we don't have to overhaul the squad every time we get a new manager. But that's more about club policy than transfer policy How many clubs in the league achieve this? Brentford and Brighton do, but I'm not sure there's any other club that does (including the Sky 6, though of course if you have that much money it doesn't matter quite as much). Newcastle will be interesting in this perhaps. Anyway, I agree with you this is a good target, but to be clear it's also a very hard and ambitious target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: How many clubs in the league achieve this? Brentford and Brighton do, but I'm not sure there's any other club that does (including the Sky 6, though of course if you have that much money it doesn't matter quite as much). Newcastle will be interesting in this perhaps. Anyway, I agree with you this is a good target, but to be clear it's also a very hard and ambitious target. You need a big personality with a lot of talent and vision as the director of football, then you task them with how the football side of the club works from the youth teams to the first team, recruitment philosophy to fit that vision. Whoever comes as coach has to be 100% on board or they don't get to be part of the project... It's a very different thing to the traditional UK model, where the perfect scenario is the manager does all that, is successful and stays for 20 years! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 minute ago, romavillan said: You need a big personality with a lot of talent and vision as the director of football, then you task them with how the football side of the club works from the youth teams to the first team, recruitment philosophy to fit that vision. Whoever comes as coach has to be 100% on board or they don't get to be part of the project... It's a very different thing to the traditional UK model, where the perfect scenario is the manager does all that, is successful and stays for 20 years! I agree with everything you say there, but I *also* suspect it's not a coincidence that its Brighton and Brentford who manage this, not everyone else. I was pretty skeptical that the data analysis stuff that Bloom, Benham etc have brought to bear would make that much difference, but you certainly can't argue with the results at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2023 25 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: How many clubs in the league achieve this? Brentford and Brighton do, but I'm not sure there's any other club that does (including the Sky 6, though of course if you have that much money it doesn't matter quite as much). Newcastle will be interesting in this perhaps. Anyway, I agree with you this is a good target, but to be clear it's also a very hard and ambitious target. Oh for sure. But I think in the modern day the ideal way to run a football club is to have a system that the club buys into, a transfer/sporting director to control transfers and a coach to manage them. The coach has to have input. The traditional model of the manager doing everything doesn't work in the modern day where managers aren't around for very long. And it's an expensive way to run a club if you're turning over half the squad every time a new manager comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Oh for sure. But I think in the modern day the ideal way to run a football club is to have a system that the club buys into, a transfer/sporting director to control transfers and a coach to manage them. The coach has to have input. The traditional model of the manager doing everything doesn't work in the modern day where managers aren't around for very long. And it's an expensive way to run a club if you're turning over half the squad every time a new manager comes in. The problem is that you basically limit the “coach” entirely. Unai Emery, as an example, clearly has a way he likes his sides to play and requires certain attributes to succeed in this regard. Would he go to a club where he’s restricted in what he’s able to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 On the back of us selling Ings to West ham... Now do West Ham... Ings going there because their £35m striker isn't up to much and he was bought in because they sold their £45m striker who wasn't up to much either and that's the tip of the iceberg The problem with villas transfer policy is that its too easy to be insular and only look at villa in great detail and be convinced that we do everything wrong and can't do what everyone else can whereas in reality everyone else has huge misses and losses too "why can't we be more like Brighton in the transfer window" it's a bit harsh to single out their record transfer but the likes of the Iranian guy and locadia did nothing there, they've got big money flops too, everyone has 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidmon Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 The barometer of whether we're getting reasonable value for money for Ings will be if Chris Wood goes to Forest as rumoured. Six months older than Ings and whose scoring record of late has been abysmal in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) Truth is that selling Ings has been one of our rare smarter moves (along with Kamara for free - still don't know how that happened - thanks Stevie!) It's a gamble, but one you have to be willing to make otherwise you end up with the albatross that is going on at West Ham (100m in forwards in the last year!) and Everton (going down and wouldn't surprise me if administration/FPP comes into play). Yes - Ings still has quality - but it was a rash transfer in and so we need to cut our losses on the transfer out while we still can. We need a mix of pros on reasonable contracts (Young, McGinn, Watkins, Konsa, Mings, etc) and need to stay away from the dead weights as much as we can like Diego Carlos and Digne (in terms of financial expense, not playing quality). And then the cherry on top is taking some gambles on young talents (Duran, Luiz, Kamara) and developing our own (JJ). Yes - it sucks that at some point we might have to sell them but you continue recycling until we move ourselves up with continued investment, placing higher (for more money and for European spots), and one of the missing pieces - GOOD COACHING. If we have a reasonable transfer policy surrounding that - then we could pull a "Brighton" with some continued investment from NWSE that is not just state-funded like the Maggies. So the transfer policy has been pretty shit since Grealish, but maybe selling Ings is a sign that they're pulling their finger out under the suggestion of Don Emery. Edited January 19, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Fact of the matter is, if we do sell Ings in this window, they cannot be relying on Duran to come in and hit the ground running. If they do that it is a reckless gamble that could easily backfire if we're not too careful. Watkins is unreliable for goals and an injury to him leaves us very light up front. However, I hope we don't go out and panic-buy another older (experienced) player on fat wages just to fill out the gap Ings will leave. If we go for a striker this window he needs to be one that makes sense in regards to what we are trying to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, bobzy said: The problem is that you basically limit the “coach” entirely. Unai Emery, as an example, clearly has a way he likes his sides to play and requires certain attributes to succeed in this regard. Would he go to a club where he’s restricted in what he’s able to achieve? He's worked that way in every club he's managed at as far as I can tell. So yes. I'm not saying the manager has no input into the system or transfers. Just that we can get to a place where the team can have a squad where we play a certain way and a new coach can come in and make small tweaks rather than a huge overhaul in system and personnel. Currently it's like we're starting again every 12 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 33 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He's worked that way in every club he's managed at as far as I can tell. So yes. I'm not saying the manager has no input into the system or transfers. Just that we can get to a place where the team can have a squad where we play a certain way and a new coach can come in and make small tweaks rather than a huge overhaul in system and personnel. Currently it's like we're starting again every 12 months To be fair he has signed at least 5 first team players in his first season for every club he has gone to since Seville days so it’s understandable he probably wants to do the same at Villa. I guess the key difference is the amount of money that was spent by the previous 2 managers before hand. He’ll be backed to make big changes but hopefully this is the last time we have to do this again for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 On 19/01/2023 at 13:41, romavillan said: You need a big personality with a lot of talent and vision as the director of football, then you task them with how the football side of the club works from the youth teams to the first team, recruitment philosophy to fit that vision. Whoever comes as coach has to be 100% on board or they don't get to be part of the project... It's a very different thing to the traditional UK model, where the perfect scenario is the manager does all that, is successful and stays for 20 years! Where did Spurs money come from? In 2007-9 when we were ahead of them a bit they didn't seem to be mega moneybags. I know the sold Bale but they spent that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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