Steven Gerrard

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

What we are trying to do Shaun, is run with out having dedicated defensive nous in central midfield, and papering over the issue, by deploying offensive minded players there and taking it as fixed...its not, and the problem is with us until the summer and then god knows we need to sign one......No other position in the team, would be ignored or passed over, like this one has......would we run without a centre back, or centre forward....No

Its too early to blame SG....but the club, is at fault here, surely the Director of football has eyes, and there are so many now involved in recruitment, surely, its been mentioned in the past.

You are right, its the balance, more than the quality, although I have to say, we are so lightweight, staying on the ball, in light of a challenge, seems a difficulty, for most of our players.

SG said yesterday...." The ease in which we concede, is in contrast to how hard we have to work,to score"......That is a tell tale sign of our issues.....The first goal was an epitome of that statement.

The problem is, the answer, doesn't lie in the squad, every permutation of player and system has been tried, by 2 managers......We simply can't cover the absence of a quality CDM. I hear the cries of they are rare and hard to find, and yet just about every other team we are competing with has one or two.....its baffling.

The bit, I struggle to comprehend, is how long its taken for the penny to drop at the club.

Was there a ruling that you can't sign a DM in the Jan window ?

Or that you have to a considerable expense bomb out last year's player of year and commit funds to sign  a player who barely looks any better ?  (Which incidentally cost us a goal and point yesterday)  

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Was there a ruling that you can't sign a DM in the Jan window ?

Or that you have to a considerable expense bomb out last year's player of year and commit funds to sign  a player who barely looks any better ?  (Which incidentally cost us a goal and point yesterday)  

 

Well, If you are asking me Hippo?....I think Lucas Digne is lightweight too, another lightweight, bought in...Lightweight in stature.

I don't think Targett was the answer either, for different reasons and it seems Newcastle are looking for better than him, so lets not count the£15 mill, before we get it. He got player of the year on the back of a world class wide player in front of him, who's forte, was keeping the ball.....I didn't think he was player of the year, anyway.

I have no idea, why one wasn't brought in.....it seems we had our eyes on just one and couldn't agree a deal....I hope we show more urgency in the Summer.

In view of the dubious view I have in not signing a CDM before now, it leaves me with an anxious feeling of the next round of signings......I am just not confident in the recruitment so far, in terms of what the team needs.....sure Coutinho and Digne are talented players, but we need some more muscle in there to compliment the talent.....we keep signing lightweights in terms of stature and wonder why, we are being just shoved off the ball, with the slightest of contact.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by TRO

[hippo]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Well, If you are asking me Hippo....I think Lucas Digne is lightweight too, another lightweight, bought in...Lightweight in stature.

I don't think Targett was the answer either, for different reasons and it seems Newcastle are looking for better than him, so lets not count the£15 mill, before we get it. He got player of the year on the back of a world class wide player in front of him, who's forte, was keeping the ball.....I didn't think he was player of the year, anyway.

I have no idea, why one wasn't brought in.....it seems we had our eyes on just one and couldn't agree a deal....I hope we show more urgency in the Summer.

In view of the dubious view I have in not signing a CDM before now, it leaves me with an anxious feeling of the next round of signings......I am just not confident in the recruitment so far, in terms of what the team needs.....sure Coutinho and Digne are talented players, but we need some more muscle in there to compliment the talent.....we keep signing lightweights in terms of stature and wonder why, we are being just shoved off the ball, with the slightest of contact.

 

I share your concerns about summer recruitment.

But for me that comes back to having the wrong man in Gerrard calling the shots.

[Jbvilla909]

Just want a Villa manager to make changes before 70 minutes when we're playing like garbage and 2-0 down in the first half. 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

I share your concerns about summer recruitment.

But for me that comes back to having the wrong man in Gerrard calling the shots.

but we have to let him have his Summer first and see what we bring in.....He has only had a January Window, and it seems like he wanted some offensive improvement, because Digne is no defensive improvement.

lets give him the benefit of the doubt and he has seen more of this team now warts 'n all.....lets hope that transcends in to the RIGHT players coming in to address our issues.

Its too early, to be saying he is the wrong man, albeit I was over ambitious thinking he could instil some tenacity and urgency in to this team, I thought some of his intrinsic qualities would rub off, but clearly not so.

I hope we get some character and leadership in to the side in the summer....we have enough show ponies to create a circus.

[ozvillafan]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

I hope we move away from this system of playing two number 10’s and relying on the fullbacks for all the width. I much preferred Smiths 4-2-3-1 formation - we just didn’t have the personnel to play it (no defensive midfielders). 

Me too.

I remember hearing from a professional player down here in the A-League about a particular change in manager. The side was doing ok - the manager left at the beginning of the season to go to another club overseas. A new one came in with a reputation for good football and instilled a completely different style, formation and tactics.

It flopped spectacularly.

The reason? The player mentioned said something along the lines of "The new manager came in and basically said everything we knew and everything we did was garbage and we need to start over again playing his style of football". The players never bought it - some of whom where very experienced at this level - knowing that they wouldn't be able to play the roles and style required as they just weren't suited to it.

Now I'm sure there's more too it in this situation - there always is - but I wonder if the comments from Gerrard recently about "players believing" fits into a similar narrative, with our current style being forced despite it not suiting our squad and players not buying it?

[picicata]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Why can’t he throw them under the bus though?

If I’m a player and I get thrown under the bus publicly it’s going to make me question myself and try to perform better, I’m all for it, play crap and you get called out for it, they earn enough. 

Unless, of course, the players all think the manager is a chancer. And they might be right.

[picicata]

24 minutes ago, hippo said:

I share your concerns about summer recruitment.

But for me that comes back to having the wrong man in Gerrard calling the shots.

I fear the summer recruitment. Not because I don't think we'll spend money, but because I think we'll spend a shed load trying to achieve a shape that'll never work.

[Dale]

Just now, picicata said:

Unless, of course, the players all think the manager is a chancer. And they might be right.

Both him and Frank are showing signs of being the very opposite of progressive in their thinking and man management... Digging people out, talking up their injuries as a positive part of the game, not really understanding the players that play for them. It ends one way, with a lost dressing room and a career as a TV pundit. 

[picicata]

1 minute ago, Dale said:

Both him and Frank are showing signs of being the very opposite of progressive in their thinking and man management... Digging people out, talking up their injuries as a positive part of the game, not really understanding the players that play for them. It ends one way, with a lost dressing room and a career as a TV pundit. 

I wonder if they'll be able to be TV pundits together or whether they'll just keep on interrupting each other and covering the same ground?

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Was there a ruling that you can't sign a DM in the Jan window ?

Or that you have to a considerable expense bomb out last year's player of year and commit funds to sign  a player who barely looks any better ?  (Which incidentally cost us a goal and point yesterday)  

 

Your gripe is often withe Gerrard rather than the board, so please explain if so why this is Gerrard’s fault?  There was interest in Bentancur and Bissouma but none went through, Target wasn’t bombed out he couldn’t hack the idea of competing for his place, he was an injury  or suspension away from regaining his place he simply didn’t back himself enough to do it. Very weak mentality.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Me too.

I remember hearing from a professional player down here in the A-League about a particular change in manager. The side was doing ok - the manager left at the beginning of the season to go to another club overseas. A new one came in with a reputation for good football and instilled a completely different style, formation and tactics.

It flopped spectacularly.

The reason? The player mentioned said something along the lines of "The new manager came in and basically said everything we knew and everything we did was garbage and we need to start over again playing his style of football". The players never bought it - some of whom where very experienced at this level - knowing that they wouldn't be able to play the roles and style required as they just weren't suited to it.

Now I'm sure there's more too it in this situation - there always is - but I wonder if the comments from Gerrard recently about "players believing" fits into a similar narrative, with our current style being forced despite it not suiting our squad and players not buying it?

I feel the opposite at times....I see things that still look so familiar, to Dean Smiths team.

Sure I see some differences in what the full backs are expected to do and the narrower forward line.....but the traits of losing the ball so easily, misplaced passes, being available to be closed down, so easily, semi pressing in lieu of a full press, half hearted contact in duels, unforced errors....I still see all that.....and I thought that would change, but it hasn't.

SG clearly can't get from this squad what he wants, hence the comment about "believing".....I don't think certain things, is in them intrinsically, it wasn't considered in past recruitment, hence we have accumulated much of the same type of characters.....they are ok when given time and space to play, shut them down and they flounder and don't seem to know how to deal with it.....Wolves, seem to be privy to our weaknesses.

 

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Your gripe is often withe Gerrard rather than the board, so please explain if so why this is Gerrard’s fault?  There was interest in Bentancur and Bissouma but none went through, Target wasn’t bombed out he couldn’t hack the idea of competing for his place, he was an injury  or suspension away from regaining his place he simply didn’t back himself enough to do it. Very weak mentality.

Well Gerrard is ultimately accountable for the playing side of things. So rightly or wrongly the buck stops with him.

If people are saying  Nkamba filled the DM void - surely a player of that ilk could be found.

Targett weak mentally - sure.  But I can see that scenario being replicated over and over - a Gerrard pick comes in - the player sidelined realises he can get PL game time elsewhere so off he goes. We are left with the dignes of this world on Stevie's whim.

[hippo]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I feel the opposite at times....I see things that still look so familiar, to Dean Smiths team.

Sure I see some differences in what the full backs are expected to do and the narrower forward line.....but the traits of losing the ball so easily, misplaced passes, being available to be closed down, so easily, semi pressing in lieu of a full press, half hearted contact in duels, unforced errors....I still see all that.....and I thought that would change, but it hasn't.

SG clearly can't get from this squad what he wants, hence the comment about "believing".....I don't think certain things, is in them intrinsically, it wasn't considered in past recruitment, hence we have accumulated much of the same type of characters.....they are ok when given time and space to play, shut them down and they flounder and don't seem to know how to deal with it.....Wolves, seem to be privy to our weaknesses.

 

But you don't think the departing players will do it at there new clubs ?

Despite most of them being internationals - you don't think they are good enough for Aston Villa ?  ....and yet some players from Liverpool reserves will be ?

[icouldtelltheworld]

I think he deserves time and that there have been some positive signs at points during his tenure, but I really can't shake the feeling that giving him a load of money to oversee a massive squad overhaul and completely change the way we play could well be a decision we regret for a long time to come.

We have a squad full of talented players, what we need now is to add quality not quantity each year. If he can't get this team playing to something like their potential then he isn't the man for the job long term.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

But you don't think the departing players will do it at there new clubs ?

Despite most of them being internationals - you don't think they are good enough for Aston Villa ?  ....and yet some players from Liverpool reserves will be ?

They could well do.....Coutinho has done better with us than Barcelona.

Your missing the point again Hippo.....its BALANCE.......it depends what a team needs.

I could pick out 6 players all £ 50mill rated to play the front 3-3, but if the balance is wrong, they will be eaten alive.......A team full of Mo Salah's wouldn't win a game.....Liverpool have a fine balance to their team in addition to quality players.

If one of our players joins a club with a strong dep't i.e midfield, he could well, do well. for example.....If you put Luiz or McGinn in with Rice and Soucek, as a 3, they could well thrive.

Its getting that balance, where players thrive off each others varying attributes, it's what we have missing and it has drained the confidence out of the team, by not having it.

right now.....I would play chambers as CDM and try it, for a stop gap.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Was there a ruling that you can't sign a DM in the Jan window ?

Or that you have to a considerable expense bomb out last year's player of year and commit funds to sign  a player who barely looks any better ?  (Which incidentally cost us a goal and point yesterday)  

 

No.....Gifting the opposition the ball - with a bow ribbon around it- then floundering to get it back, cost us the game.

Edited April 3, 2022 by TRO

[Zatman]

His excuses after games are getting pathetic. Maybe instead of playing a charity game which was obviously for a good cause he could have beeyat Bodymoor studying tactics on how to beat Wolves

I had zero faith all week that we would get a result vs Wolves missing the 2 best players 

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, picicata said:

I fear the summer recruitment. Not because I don't think we'll spend money, but because I think we'll spend a shed load trying to achieve a shape that'll never work.

what do you mean by shape.....how many are there?

most of them are a tweak of the previous one.....most shapes are only there when the game kicks off and they morph with the play, overloads and underloads exist, in relation to the dynamics of the game.

When one team works hard and one doesn't.....it can equate to having an extra player.

When you have a lightweight midfield and 2 raiding full backs, that's like having just 2 defenders......no wonder we are exposed at times.

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Your gripe is often withe Gerrard rather than the board, so please explain if so why this is Gerrard’s fault?  There was interest in Bentancur and Bissouma but none went through, Target wasn’t bombed out he couldn’t hack the idea of competing for his place, he was an injury  or suspension away from regaining his place he simply didn’t back himself enough to do it. Very weak mentality.

Spot on.

Edited April 3, 2022 by TRO