Team shape, tactics and personnel

[DJBOB]

To be honest, there’s only so much you can do against these low blocks in open play. You need a real top talent (KDB, Salah, etc) to break it down. 
 
Where we were particularly wasteful were our corners and set pieces. That’s how City and Arsenal have gotten around low blocks and Dougie’s delivery was subpar and our corners were not threatening. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

The diagonals break the low block with full backs running from deep.  That’s why Pau such a big player for us. 
 

This along with set pieces. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

27 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

To be honest, there’s only so much you can do against these low blocks in open play. You need a real top talent (KDB, Salah, etc) to break it down. 
 
Where we were particularly wasteful were our corners and set pieces. That’s how City and Arsenal have gotten around low blocks and Dougie’s delivery was subpar and our corners were not threatening. 

Yeh we’re normally better with set pieces. 

[andym]

For all the talk that teams have worked us out and will just sit back, we are better when underdogs etc, we've played 12 games against teams lower than us at the time of playing (i've also included everton 2nd game who were level on points but i think everyone would have had us favourites)

8 wins, 3 draws, 1 loss.

2 of those draws away at Wolves who had just beaten Man City and away at Bournemouth who have won 5 out of 6 (us being who they dropped points to).

Its a similar ratio if you consider Unai's time as a whole.

There's going to be games where we dont perform like we can and drop points to lower teams, but that happens in this league. Overall, we are beatings teams we are expected to, with the added bonus of getting results against our rivals.

Some people seem to go into crisis mode unless we beat a team 3-0 with no chances against. 

[AV82]

4 hours ago, DJBOB said:

To be honest, there’s only so much you can do against these low blocks in open play. You need a real top talent (KDB, Salah, etc) to break it down. 
 
Where we were particularly wasteful were our corners and set pieces. That’s how City and Arsenal have gotten around low blocks and Dougie’s delivery was subpar and our corners were not threatening. 

This is the key difference between an overachieving team and a team that cements itself as a real top challenger. It's much easier to beat over complacent teams on the break but we have people's attention now so we can expect the dynamic of our matches to shift even more moving forward.

I wish people understood this better, it'd make losing points against the likes of Nottingham Forest and Sheffield United a little easier to stomach. Those lost points aren't embarrassing and it certainly isn't a sign of us going backwards. It's a sign that teams are scared to face us and unfortunately the better we do the worse it'll get.

It's crunch time now and it weeds out the teams that are playing above their station. Thankfully I think we have the team, the manager and the resources to stay where we are.

Edited December 24, 2023 by AV82

[TRO]

3 hours ago, AV82 said:

This is the key difference between an overachieving team and a team that cements itself as a real top challenger. It's much easier to beat over complacent teams on the break but we have people's attention now so we can expect the dynamic of our matches to shift even more moving forward.

I wish people understood this better, it'd make losing points against the likes of Nottingham Forest and Sheffield United a little easier to stomach. Those lost points aren't embarrassing and it certainly isn't a sign of us going backwards. It's a sign that teams are scared to face us and unfortunately the better we do the worse it'll get.

It's crunch time now and it weeds out the teams that are playing above their station. Thankfully I think we have the team, the manager and the resources to stay where we are.

I accept some of your points.....but I don't accept that dropping points at Home, (after winning 15 consecutively) to a team who have won only 2 games out of 18 all season and we dominating possession like we did.....I don't accept losing to Forest was any easier to stomach either...they have won 3 games out of 18.

I am not about to clobber them for it, because overall they have been stupendous, and we are in 3rd place.....but If you think UE will be taking those results as inevitable, I think you are wrong.

UE will not be happy with those results, despite saying on air, he was happy with the players.....He will have seen things, he will want to work on.

Top managers, will not want to drop points against teams, who are struggling to secure them against everyone else.....its not what progressive teams want to do or accept.

There is no cause for concern, as you say, but there is cause to avoid, being stopped against teams we should be beating.

We can't win every game, but that does not mean, we have to struggle against lowly teams, in order to make losing the odd game feasible.

We could have done many things better in both games, thats why we dropped points.

Newcastle dropped points against Luton, but Howe will be telling them, they shouldn't have done.

I don't quite get your reasoning, on "The better we do the worse it will get"......The better we do, the more teams we will beat, particulalry the ones we should beat, and the more scared they are, the more we should capitalise.

I understand, that we are new to this, and winning takes some getting used to, but its no time for looking over our shoulder to a time when, dropping points was accepted as part and parcel of our game.

We want to dine at the top table now....its ruthless in that company, and dropping points against bottom of the table teams, in the manner we did, is something we have to work on.

Dropping points and losing games will happen.....but not seeking solace in  it, is a sign of moving forward, is the start of being winners.

We have to learn how to live, at the top of the table, because as you say, everyone, will want to beat us....that takes a certain mentality, to deal with it......doesn't mean its ok to let them.

PS Despite my points, I am not suggesting, we go all cool/ broody on the team, far from it....I am just saying, stay with the managers Mantra of wanting to win every game.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by TRO

[villan95]

We dally about too much at times as if it's almost too easy for is, playing at far too slow a tempo and then when the opposition increase the tempo and gain momentum we can't cope.

Edited December 26, 2023 by villan95

[StefanAVFC]

No tactics today. They worked out the high line in the 2nd half and we didn’t adapt. 

[villan95]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

No tactics today. They worked out the high line in the 2nd half and we didn’t adapt. 

It's infuriating that we didn't heed the warnings like the disallowed goal. Just kept playing the same way waiting for the inevitable.

[DJBOB]

Not one for the tactics. Diego passed it to them. We lost a bunch of 50/50s in the middle for the second and lost a corner for the third. 
 
Our inability to progress and keep the ball (Dendoncker Luiz and JJ being the main culprits) was our downfall. 

[MattVillaPortsmouth]

Lost count of the amount of times we needed to hit it long into the corners/space or hit row Z - I get the passing out and what it gives us, but we need to mix it up especially when the opposition have there tails up.  

[villan95]

Just now, DJBOB said:

Not one for the tactics. Diego passed it to them. We lost a bunch of 50/50s in the middle for the second and lost a corner for the third. 
 
Our inability to progress and keep the ball (Dendoncker Luiz and JJ being the main culprits) was our downfall. 

Felt like we only had a handful of players up to it tonight and the rest passengers. What is the point of a CM that can't receive the ball 

[Tom13]

What is Diaby's role/position now exactly?

[DJBOB]

3 minutes ago, villan95 said:

Felt like we only had a handful of players up to it tonight and the rest passengers. What is the point of a CM that can't receive the ball 

Dendoncker was a weak point and they focused on keeping play on Diego’s side of the pitch knowing that Dendoncker can’t pass well enough to bounce it to the other side of the pitch to escape the pressure. Luiz was inexplicably terrible as well. 
 
It then became progressively too easy to pin us against the sideline and then hope for a 50/50 ball to Bailey or Watkins or McGinn. 
 
A combination of injuries and trusting too much on Dendoncker to be able to play the same way as Kamara. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by DJBOB

[Delphinho123]

Nobody can convince me our high line is a good way of playing. Nobody. I don’t care if we’re top of the league by ten points, I just hate watching it. 

Im not claiming to be right btw, but I’m never going to learn to like it. Painful viewing. 

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Nobody can convince me our high line is a good way of playing. Nobody. I don’t care if we’re top of the league by ten points, I just hate watching it. 

Im not claiming to be right btw, but I’m never going to learn to like it. Painful viewing. 

I think it’s normal not to like it. It’s high risk, there’s always a chance it goes horribly wrong. 
 
But none of our goals were from the high line. 

[Delphinho123]

Just now, DJBOB said:

I think it’s normal not to like it. It’s high risk, there’s always a chance it goes horribly wrong. 
 
But none of our goals were from the high line. 

Knew you had my back, Bob. 

[AV82]

I've cooled off a little (losing in this way to f**king Manchester United of all teams is a kick in the balls).

No Digne (let me count this one), Mings, Pau, Cash.
No Kamara, Tielemans, Buendia.
Ramsey and Moreno well off the pace after returning from injury. Diaby fallen into a black hole.
A knackered Douglas, McGinn and Watkins.
A position way ahead of our squad (taxing schedule in Europe and playing against teams with a close eye on us now).

We might've dropped the ball against Sheffield United and Manchester United.. (c***s).. but we can bounce back.

[villan95]

We've got away with conceding goals this season by outscoring teams in most matches but our inability to keep clean sheets against middling to lower clubs especially is a concern to me. The second half of last season was built on a solid defensive foundation which seems to have disappeared. The recent performances against Man City and Arsenal show we can still do it but I would like to see more defensive resilience overall.

Edited December 26, 2023 by villan95

[DJBOB]

The problem there - easy to see - a yawning chasm around Dendoncker and not a forward arrow from him.