daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Anything11 said: Ding Ding Ding However on the first point - Gerrard system involves overloading wide space using fullbacks which we definitely try to do. The contention is where is it breaking down and why. I am unconvinced it is all Gerrard or all the players as I have seen convincing evidence and arguments that things aren't working in more than one area. However, the midfield does appear to be a particular problem. I think something that would help in the short term is to start using cut-backs instead, especially against defenders that are towering and worse on their feet than their heads. Cut back when they are facing the goal and create a bit of Mayhem as they scramble to intercept or clear with their bodies in awkward angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything11 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, daft said: I think something that would help in the short term is to start using cut-backs instead, especially against defenders that are towering and worse on their feet than their heads. Cut back when they are facing the goal and create a bit of Mayhem as they scramble to intercept or clear with their bodies in awkward angles. That is the goal but we aren't able to make it happen at the minute. Something isn't clicking and the players are far too often playing within themselves and without a sense of confidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, Anything11 said: That is the goal but we aren't able to make it happen at the minute. Something isn't clicking and the players are far too often playing within themselves and without a sense of confidence. Yeah, it's weird. In part, we lack late runners to cut balls hard across goal for the to crash on to and tap in. Partly, I think, because we seem to try and and transition so fast by launching runs from the midfield as soon as we get the ball, leaving that flabbergasting hole we see between the defense and attacking unit. Possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, daft said: Indeed. It was general poor defending that cost us more than height to be fair. but the height was an issue in the defending.....as was the poor closing down, for the cross. Edited August 12, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, TRO said: but the height was an issue in the defending. We have on average a taller team than Bournemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, TRO said: but the height was an issue in the defending. Yes, true, but height can be defended indirectly, either by incredible athleticism or by cutting out crosses for example. It's simply a defensive puzzle to be solved within the parameters set by the players available to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 16 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: It's a joke. All this talk of mentally weak players for you to go and show yourself up as very easily offended! I haven't wondered why people respond adversely as no one has because I've ignored most of the debates in here for months. I have a few who have firmly placed themselves on my 'don't bother' list by repeating the same trite nonsense year after year. you have your opinions, I have mine. but don't expect to mock other folks opinions and be challenge free. Now lets get back to sensible debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 17 hours ago, TRO said: Average height is not the issue....height in crucial situations, relating to marking is. Mark the crosses then, for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 We can finally put to bed the crap that we want to play like Liverpool and thats how we set up. Since Carlos like Mings has been asked to hoof it which Van Dijk isn't told to do. The midfield issue as well they might have more defensive minded players but nearly all technically competent and we give McGinn the armband to be our starting midfielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, daft said: I think you need to try and create overloads in key areas, drawing some of their defenders out with movement to create space. The first we can at least try to do, the second I don't think we have the players for, which could explain why we suddenly tried lifted crosses instead of low cut-backs from closer to goal, created by overloads out wide or in the half-spaces. Just some thoughts. Agreed, you want to create overloads, but the midfielders sprinting forward, providing no options for the players in possession is not the correct way of creating overloads, that just results in good old hoofball 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, daft said: Mark the crosses then, for example. Thats why there are many issues, but we sometimes talk about them one at a time. just because we talk about an issue, doesn't mean we think its the only one.....that would be a misinterpretation error, from the recipient. Look, We are all Villa fans with the same objective....as things are going wrong, some of us are searching for answers......No one has a monopoly of that, its just discerning fans offering thoughts. We all want the same objective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: Agreed, you want to create overloads, but the midfielders sprinting forward, providing no options for the players in possession is not the correct way of creating overloads, that just results in good old hoofball Exactly. And hence the claim by TFA that we look like a team stuck between two systems. One where we launch quick runs in the transition, and one where we try and create overloads with cut-backs depending on late arriving mids to scoop in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Thats why there are many issues, but we sometimes talk about them one at a time. just because we talk about an issue, doesn't mean we think its the only one.....that would be a misinterpretation error, from the recipient. Look, We are all Villa fans with the same objective....as things are going wrong, some of us are searching for answers......No one has a monopoly of that, its just discerning fans offering thoughts. We all want the same objective. Yeah, sorry I wasn't really arguing against you at all, but agreed. Didn't mean to come across as trying to correct you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2022 Martinez Cash Mings Carlos Digne Buba Sanson Luiz Bailey Buendia Watkins top 8 finish no one problem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Follyfoot said: Martinez Cash Mings Carlos Digne Buba Sanson Luiz Bailey Buendia Watkins top 8 finish no one problem Pretty much the team I have wanted all along We will never see it sadly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them. Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward. Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us. Wakey wakey, Villa. What an amazing picture. Like a Sunday League team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Paul33 said: Where do you expect them to be when playing against a 10-man low block ? Ok, so, if that ball is cut out by a player or the defender wins the initial header, you could potentially be in a situation where they have a 6 on 3 / 6 on 4 attack against us. Either way, we could be overloaded with just Kamara, Konsa and Carlos centrally as they attack us straight through the middle. I'm not saying we shouldn't commit men forward but this is the 6th minute of a match and isn't an isolated incident. Look at Mcginn's positioning in that photo - it's f***** atrocious. What the hell is he doing all the way over there. If Ramsey is pushing on, he should be the middle of the pitch either holding or making himself available for the pass. I'm sorry, but our system is an absolute mess when it comes to the middle of the pitch. We could find ourselves in a relegation scrap if we continue to set up like we are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, Delphinho123 said: I'm sorry, but our system is an absolute mess when it comes to the middle of the pitch. We could find ourselves in a relegation scrap if we continue to set up like we are. We nearly sleep walked into a relegation struggle last season as well with that disastrous 2022 form. It could easily happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, daft said: Yeah, sorry I wasn't really arguing against you at all, but agreed. Didn't mean to come across as trying to correct you. You can correct me, all you like....I have no monopoly on whats right, contrary to what some will have you believe. sensible , measured, debate and a cross fertilisation of thought, is what it should be all about.....None of us are privvy to the inner workings of BMH, that has to be factored in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Why do people keep referencing Arteta when saying Gerrard needs time? Arteta had a plan and the plan was obvious, all the players knew/know their role. There were times when they messed it up but when they got the ball in the same situation, they tried the same thing again. Maybe the f-ed it up the second time as well, but they tried it the third time and the fourth time and so on until it worked. It resulted in some shocking defeats and runs of embarrassing results but there was always a plan. With us at the moment there is no discernible plan or structure, apart from, wing backs get forward. Build-up patterns are non-existent. Movement of the players is just random. There’s just no plan. Gerrard and Arteta played at the same time and were both midfielders. That’s where the similarities end. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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