Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

On 29/04/2022 at 07:16, eholm said:

Bissouma is not a specialist 6 though. He’s more of an 8 who has decent defensive qualities. We need a proper CDM AND a better 8. Buying  Bissouma as an 8 in addition to a 6 would be where SG is going I would hope. 

quite a few fall in to that category.

I think we all get too hung up about numbers.....its the jobs they do well are the most relevant.

We have to sign some players who can stop the oppositions marauding runs, with a semblance of consistency, and play out with guile, when they have the ball.....they need to be good readers of the game...and have some aerial authority, would be a bonus.

[lexicon]

Seems clear to me that Ings - Watkins is finally clicking as a partnership and it's worth pursuing that further. 4-3-1-2 seems to be the way to go. 

[IrishVilla10]

9 hours ago, tinker said:

No stats needed, basically we're just boring to watch despite having more creative talent than 95% of the other teams.

We’re boring and don’t have great work rate, that worries me. The commentator said something on Saturday along the lines of “Gerrards work rate is a player is evident in this villa side” as Norwich passed it around us the last 30 minutes. I’m not seeing it at all. The Leeds draw and win, then the first half vs spurs are the only times in months I can remember thinking we were playing fluid football. Now it’s just gone stale 

Edited May 2, 2022 by IrishVilla10

[VillaParkAvenue]

5 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

We’re boring and don’t have great work rate, that worries me. The commentator said something on Saturday along the lines of “Gerrards work rate is a player is evident in this villa side” as Norwich passed it around us the last 30 minutes. I’m not seeing it at all. The Leeds draw and win, then the first half vs spurs are the only times I can remember thinking we were playing fluid football. Now it’s just gone stale 

SG has two different ways of playing out of possession. Sometimes we press higher and have more possession as s result but also risk getting cut open in transition. Other times we focus on getting back into shape and defending in some sort of mid block, leading to less possession.

The last two games have been more of the latter, similar to when SG first arrived and focus was on keeping a tighter shape.

[IrishVilla10]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

Coutinho, Buendia, Ings, Watkins, Bailey, Traore, Ramsey 

Except Liverpool and City show me a better all round attacking threat

We have really good options up top for sure, but compare our midfield with other teams in the league

[IrishVilla10]

4 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

SG has two different ways of playing out of possession. Sometimes we press higher and have more possession as s result but also risk getting cut open in transition. Other times we focus on getting back into shape and defending in some sort of mid block, leading to less possession.

The last two games have been more of the latter, similar to when SG first arrived and focus was on keeping a tighter shape.

I’m happy to see it when necessary I just felt against Norwich we should have had more of the ball, and made them look better than we needed to. I also didn’t get to watch the Leicester game so hadn’t seen us in a few weeks so that probably didn’t help 

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

We have really good options up top for sure, but compare our midfield with other teams in the league

We have had 2 managers who have presided over 162 games with a win ratio of less then 40%......I think its fair to conclude, that maybe we have too much faith in some of our players.

Maybe our assessment of some of them is flawed?

Edited May 2, 2022 by TRO

[IrishVilla10]

Would we benefit from switching Mcginn and Ramsey from left to right? Would stop everyone from going down the left side 

[MaVilla]

On 01/05/2022 at 09:29, lexicon said:

Seems clear to me that Ings - Watkins is finally clicking as a partnership and it's worth pursuing that further. 4-3-1-2 seems to be the way to go. 

maybe the way to go for this season, but we dont want to be playing 2 "strikers" next season i dont think.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

maybe the way to go for this season, but we dont want to be playing 2 "strikers" next season i dont think.

For all the changes, i see in formations, personnel etc.

I don't see anything that gives me hope that this team in its current format....looks anything like achieving consistency in this league.

Its built for Midtable......now we need to build for top half....and players coming in have to be better, than what we have.

certain things work, then they don't work......certain players have a good game, then a not so good game, its so up and down and its usually dictated by the quality of opposition.....We seem very predicatable and rarely get shock results, all par for the course.

I only see beyond some players in this squad, achieving consistency.

Edited May 2, 2022 by TRO

[MaVilla]

52 minutes ago, TRO said:

For all the changes, i see in formations, personnel etc.

I don't see anything that gives me hope that this team in its current format....looks anything like achieving consistency in this league.

Its built for Midtable......now we need to build for top half....and players coming in have to be better, than what we have.

certain things work, then they don't work......certain players have a good game, then a not so good game, its so up and down and its usually dictated by the quality of opposition.....We seem very predicatable and rarely get shock results, all par for the course.

I only see beyond some players in this squad, achieving consistency.

yeah, i think we need a minimum of 4 new players in this starting 11 to even have a chance to kick on to the next level.

Right now we are somewhere between 9th and 15th in terms of ability, depending on the day of the week, to get anywhere near a challenge top 8 we need a number of big upgrades, to challenge for top 6?, blimey, thats another thing all together.

I honestly think, only Martinez, Digne, Ramsey, Coutinho from our senior starting 11, are nailed on good enough for a top 6/8 challenge (in terms of current or future ability), then Buendia and Cash as maybe's.

So for me, thats 4-6 of our first team players, i might add Mings to the maybe list, as i think in a much better team, he would also play better, so in review, i think we must, must....MUST look something like this next season, as a minimum:

 

So 4, or maybe 5, entirely new first team players needed, 4 is a minimum though imo (DCR, DM, MC, Striker).

i think anything much short of that, we will be in the mid table mix again, the step up to top 8, or even top 6, is like night and day i think, and if we think any differently, we are fooling ourselves.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by MaVilla

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

                    Ollie                Ings

 

                           Coutinho

 

 Ramsey        Tim/Nakamba        Buendia

 

Digne         Mings            Chambers     Cash

 

Could this work till end of season? Or too lightweight ?

I have no worries about playing little EMI a bit deeper now, he's a little warrior.

We also get to have our most dangerous attacking players and workrate all over the tp end of the pitch.

Threats from all angles.

Edited May 2, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

                    Ollie                Ings

 

                           Coutinho

 

 Ramsey        Tim/Nakamba        Buendia

 

Digne         Mings            Chambers     Cash

 

Could this work till end of season? Or too lightweight ?

I have no worries about playing little EMI a bit deeper now, he's a little warrior.

We also get to have our most dangerous attacking players and workrate all over the tp end of the pitch.

Threats from all angles.

To play Buendia deep you probably have to remove Ramsey and play Luiz next to Tim/Nakamba 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

To play Buendia deep you probably have to remove Ramsey and play Luiz next to Tim/Nakamba 

That kind of becomes more of a 4 - 2 - 2 - 2

[VillaParkAvenue]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

To play Buendia deep you probably have to remove Ramsey and play Luiz next to Tim/Nakamba 

JV:s team with that adjustment looks good (Luiz - Nakamba - Buendia as the midfield 3, Coutinho as 10 and Watkins/Ings up top).

[VillaParkAvenue]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

JV:s team with that adjustment looks good (Luiz - Nakamba - Buendia as the midfield 3, Coutinho as 10 and Watkins/Ings up top).

But there's quite a lot of defensive duties on the number 8s, acting a bit like fullbacks out of possession, which could take a while for Buendia to get used to.

[Hank Scorpio]

We need the deeper midfield to be solid defensively and retain possession and provide to the attacking players.. sort that and the defence and attack will improve massively. Whoever that is I have no idea 

 

[IrishVilla10]

9 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

We need the deeper midfield to be solid defensively and retain possession and provide to the attacking players.. sort that and the defence and attack will improve massively. Whoever that is I have no idea 

 

My worry is Gerrard keeps talking about giving Mcginn more freedom, that’s pointing to a new 6 and Mcginn and Ramsey in the middle. If they’re giving Mcginn more freedom that’s a lot of work for whoever comes in to do that 6. I’d rather play Luiz, Ramsey and the new 6 

[VillaParkAvenue]

43 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

yeah, i think we need a minimum of 4 new players in this starting 11 to even have a chance to kick on to the next level.

Right now we are somewhere between 9th and 15th in terms of ability, depending on the day of the week, to get anywhere near a challenge top 8 we need a number of big upgrades, to challenge for top 6?, blimey, thats another thing all together.

I honestly think, only Martinez, Digne, Ramsey, Coutinho from our senior starting 11, are nailed on good enough for a top 6/8 challenge (in terms of current or future ability), then Buendia and Cash as maybe's.

So for me, thats 4-6 of our first team players, i might add Mings to the maybe list, as i think in a much better team, he would also play better, so in review, i think we must, must....MUST look something like this next season, as a minimum:

 

So 4, or maybe 5, entirely new first team players needed, 4 is a minimum though imo (DCR, DM, MC, Striker).

i think anything much short of that, we will be in the mid table mix again, the step up to top 8, or even top 6, is like night and day i think, and if we think any differently, we are fooling ourselves.

 

I'm not saying we don't need to improve, we do. But you don't have to have a killer squad to finish 8th or even 6th most seasons - one or two of the big clubs usually have a crap year and the teams below tend to move up and down without making huge changes.

West Ham came 6th last season, Wolves 7th for two seasons before that and even Burnley finished 7th with largely the same squad as now.

 

[MaVilla]

18 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I'm not saying we don't need to improve, we do. But you don't have to have a killer squad to finish 8th or even 6th most seasons - one or two of the big clubs usually have a crap year and the teams below tend to move up and down without making huge changes.

West Ham came 6th last season, Wolves 7th for two seasons before that and even Burnley finished 7th with largely the same squad as now.

 

its not about haivng a killer squad, but more that a lot of our players are mid table quality, or even lower PL quality, you wont finish top 10 with 3-4 when 3-4 of your players are bottom end of the Pl quality.