Team shape, tactics and personnel

[VillaParkAvenue]

20 hours ago, tinker said:

They didn't look that great last season and we have spent more over the summer and Xmas breaks, yet we have regressed and they have improved. 

Arteta looked doomed and they stuck with him and have reaped the rewards, we have to do the same with SG.... unless it completely unravels between now and the summer transfer window opening. 

I agree Arsenal weren’t great last season but they spent more than any other club last summer, close to 150m. Bought White, Odegaard, Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Lokonga, Tavares.

Arteta hasn’t only been given time, he’s had money as well the disgusting little word removed.

Edited March 23, 2022 by VillaParkAvenue

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

All season yes that and the Chelsea cup is the only time in the 2nd half we were down and got a result 

My feel on it is we're mentally soft and the substitutions come too late. 

We should be bold andale a double change at times around 60-65th minute. 

[A'Villan]

On 22/03/2022 at 22:44, The_Steve said:

When a journo writes about us and doesn’t know much so turns replies off

 

Ings purchase I wasn't keen on but Bailey and Buendia are going to be great, whether that's under Gerrard or someone else. 

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

My feel on it is we're mentally soft and the substitutions come too late. 

We should be bold andale a double change at times around 60-65th minute. 

but if its in our DNA, which I suspect it is, the likleyhood is, the ones coming on, are the same mentality/mindset.

[TRO]

On 21/03/2022 at 12:27, useless said:

The reason McGInn always plays is for the same reason he always played when Smith was manager, we currently have no better options. Also he isn't actually that bad, maybe someon we will need to replace as a starter if we're to challenge top six or four, but still more than good enough for a midtable side and good enough to be part of the squad going forward.

I would like to see him, with better ( different) midfield players in the 3...and a more advanced role.

[Zatman]

41 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

My feel on it is we're mentally soft and the substitutions come too late. 

We should be bold andale a double change at times around 60-65th minute. 

Its a strange one as has been games we lost but played well 2nd half or got late goals for near comebacks. City, Watford away, West Ham

[Anything11]

15 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Yeah I'd agree here. I do think that full back needs to be addressed before Striker as we need someone to cover LB. I also think it'll be difficult to find a Striker that is an upgrade on Watkins / Ings this summer when funds will go on Coutinho, CDM, CB, LB 

I just want a 9 to drop into the space in front of the opposition back 4 and allow the play to develop around them consistently.

[The_Steve]

16 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Ings purchase I wasn't keen on but Bailey and Buendia are going to be great, whether that's under Gerrard or someone else. 

I have full confidence every one of them will prove the doubters wrong. We are in for a big summer regardless. 

[TRO]

On 21/03/2022 at 20:47, briny_ear said:

That seems wrong. We looked good in our run against Brighton, Southampton and Leeds and that wasn’t new manager bounce. The main difference for me is we do well when things go our way from early on but are terrible at dealing with adversity. That is a feature of the squad that he inherited from Smith and he is clearly perplexed about how to change attitudes. 

I worry we have a squad full of nice guys who enjoy playing together but don’t know how to fight for points.

Bang on.

Its been ingrained in our DNA over seasons and it will be hard to shake off.

It's taken Arsenal, some time to shake off their soft under belly tag....with players like Partey and Xhaka, they are gradually doing it.

SG doesn't have the right personnel to help him do it...hence status quo.

[CVByrne]

I'd like to know what position Bailey will play going forward. As a CF alongside Watkins for example or as a 10 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I'd like to know what position Bailey will play going forward. As a CF alongside Watkins for example or as a 10 

if he don't do the business in training, he won't be playing at all, anywhere in the team.

He has to give the manager a reason NOT to leave him out when he gets a chance, so far, it hasn't happened.

That goes for many other players in a similar situation.

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

if he don't do the business in training, he won't be playing at all, anywhere in the team.

He has to give the manager a reason NOT to leave him out when he gets a chance, so far, it hasn't happened.

That goes for many other players in a similar situation.

Gerrard doesn't give players a chance. He's essentially only used 13 players from the start 

[peterw]

not totally sure about that; if you're not in the first 11, or then on the bench it is your job to impress the manager on the training ground that you shouldn't be overlooked. Its been the way for time immemorial - you're not in the manager's plans, then force your way in. 

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

not totally sure about that; if you're not in the first 11, or then on the bench it is your job to impress the manager on the training ground that you shouldn't be overlooked. Its been the way for time immemorial - you're not in the manager's plans, then force your way in. 

I feel like managers don't really take into account how a player looks on the training ground as much as people think into their squad selection. Doing it on the training ground and doing it in a real match are two different things.

Most important thing is probably how they've performed in previous games, which makes it difficult for players who have little opportunities to begin with to force themselves into the manager's plans. Looking good training probably has an effect, but if the manager already has his reliable favorites, I don't think being Messi on the training ground is going to make him change his mind.

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[peterw]

No, of course doing it on a pitch and on the training ground are two different things. But a manager can be swayed by the hard work being out in by a player and think he'll give him a go. And of course we do not have access to everything at bodymoor and see what Gerrard and his staff see. As a very minor example, roughly 30 years ago I was part of the Stafford Rangers reserve team squad (the year after they finished 2nd in the Conference I think, Des Bremner was there, around 90?). After a few months the reserve manager made it clear that he didn't fancy me much and of a squad of 30 I was never given even as much as a sniff of being anywhere near the matchday squad. i was told that they'd look at it again in the summer (I joined I think in the January from maybe Alvechurch). In the summer I was hardly contacted and just kept going and I guess they thought ignoring me would encourage me to leave. it did the opposite and I knuckled down in training and set out to prove a point. I remember after a series of good training performances I ended up playing left back (wing back - and I'm not a defender) and totally bossed everything scoring a hat-trick. From there the manager came up to me and said, fair enough you're in, and I was selected to play upcoming pre-season games v Stoke Res/Port Vale Res and Newcastle Town.

So, no, no-one can be Messi - but to use Gerrard's favourite line, if you can be the best version of yourself, and show it on the training ground, you can certainly make them think differently.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Gerrard doesn't give players a chance. He's essentially only used 13 players from the start 

Managers have a broad responsibility for results...first and foremost.

Young players have to show the manager a reason for them to play, they have to be trusted.

It would be folly, to suggest a manager has a option to play a young player, who can add value to the team and not play him.

Carney, needs to give the manager a reason to play him.....as does every other young player trying to break through.

A first team shirt is not a gift, you have to earn it.

[Anything11]

14 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

 

 

 

Good watch this. The last part echoes my sentiments that Villa are visibly improving.

[CVByrne]

Firstly incorrect from JJ that we played 4 3 3 with Coutinho and Buendia as inside forwards and we only played the Christmas tree the odd time. We've not played a 4 3 3 at all under Gerrard only the Christmas Tree and Diamond. 

Next is the chart on xG for and against. We know the drop off last season when Grealish was injured and it's clear the uptick under Gerrard started when Coutinho signed. Basically great creative players improve you xG for. 

Our issue is we don't get our most attacking goal scoring players into the front 5. When we play with the Christmas tree we have Digne, Coutinho, Watkins, Buendia, Cash as our front 5. Where are the goals there!! Take last season when we had a front 4 we had Grealish, Watkins, Barkley and Traore and it worked as they all scored goals in that first half of the season. 

We improved when we played the Diamon under Gerrard because we had Digne, Watkins, Coutinho, Ings, Cash in our attacking 5. More goal scorers there. I wish we would evolve our tactics to get Ramsey and McGinn involved more often. I want the Diamond formation with Watkins Bailey who will run the channels and Coutinho behind them. I want our 8s to get forward and when they do the opposite fullback tucks into midfield to cover. So width can come from more than just fullbacks, it can come from a split CF,  a FB or an 8. 

McGinn, Ramsey, Ings and Coutinho are the best finishers we have at the club and we were played a Christmas tree formation against Arsenal that had one of them in our attacking 5. 

A 4 2 3 1 with Watkins Coutinho Bailey and Ings as a false 9 or Watkins Ramsey Bailey and Coutinho as a false 9 is one which would work well.

Edited March 30, 2022 by CVByrne

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Anything11 said:

 

Good watch this. The last part echoes my sentiments that Villa are visibly improving.

My Brain hurts.

I think fantasy football, gets dragged in to reality football and swathes of considerations get overlooked.

I am not against stats per se.....just dubious without the "eye test" in conjunction, the stats can be challenged for their authenticity.

For me there is no substitute for watching a game live, sometimes the TV leaves area's of the play out, inadvertently and a limited view can be had.

I think the danger here is, making a simple game, too complicated by over analytics.....and important human factors being overlooked.

Personally, I still put huge emphasis on the human elements, and that has noting to do with my age or how long I have followed AVFC....Its simply my view.

I am also aware of its a team game, with individual performances within it.....that can vary as we seen so well, in the England game against Ivory Coast, where players individual performances varied, depending on whom they were playing with.

Football Analytics has become an industry where, commercial gain is at the forefront of their work.......I am still an advocate of go, watch the game, learn for yourself, after all analysts still have their own opinions on the interpretation of compiling the stats, just like live fans have, in watching the events.

I liken it to driving a car.......some analyst can go on a journey with you and take note of every stat, on the journey......but you take in so much information all at the same time, with your experience and your brain computes all of that....It usually takes in all the relevant information and disgards the chaff, thats what experience does.....Stats can take in irrelevant information along with the relevant stuff.

I try to go by the acronym K.I.S.S..................Keep it simple, stupid.

[briny_ear]

7 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Firstly incorrect from JJ that we played 4 3 3 with Coutinho and Buendia as inside forwards and we only played the Christmas tree the odd time. We've not played a 4 3 3 at all under Gerrard only the Christmas Tree and Diamond. 

Next is the chart on xG for and against. We know the drop off last season when Grealish was injured and it's clear the uptick under Gerrard started when Coutinho signed. Basically great creative players improve you xG for. 

Our issue is we don't get our most attacking goal scoring players into the front 5. When we play with the Christmas tree we have Digne, Coutinho, Watkins, Buendia, Cash as our front 5. Where are the goals there!! Take last season when we had a front 4 we had Grealish, Watkins, Barkley and Traore and it worked as they all scored goals in that first half of the season. 

We improved when we played the Diamon under Gerrard because we had Digne, Watkins, Coutinho, Ings, Cash in our attacking 5. More goal scorers there. I wish we would evolve our tactics to get Ramsey and McGinn involved more often. I want the Diamond formation with Watkins Bailey who will run the channels and Coutinho behind them. I want our 8s to get forward and when they do the opposite fullback tucks into midfield to cover. So width can come from more than just fullbacks, it can come from a split CF,  a FB or an 8. 

McGinn, Ramsey, Ings and Coutinho are the best finishers we have at the club and we were played a Christmas tree formation against Arsenal that had one of them in our attacking 5. 

A 4 2 3 1 with Watkins Coutinho Bailey and Ings as a false 9 or Watkins Ramsey Bailey and Coutinho as a false 9 is one which would work well.

I may be missing something here but the only difference between your ineffective front 5 with no goals and the better one with plenty of goals seems to be Ings in place of Buendia.

Does his inclusion really change the situation to "More goal scorers"?

If so, how?