tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: Interesting, are you sure they didn't mean his debut (also against Wolves but at home the season before)? I remember him being somewhat impressive in that game before coming off injured. No, as the point being made was around the fact he was dropped the next game, implying a fault of Gerrard as I understood it. Plus was stated he was voted motm ahead of Buendia. Buendia wasn’t our player the previous season and Sanson scored less than 5% of the motm vote for the game you’ve suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Tell us your reasons as to why you don't rate Sanson. And use detail. Tell us the reasons you rate Sanson at Aston Villa and provide detail. Edited August 30, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teale's 'tache said: Now I'm no Sanson superfan, but the guy has pedigree, over 20 games in Europe and started in a Europa League final. Personally, I'd like to see a bit more of him, especially as our midfield is bobbins and we've now got a player he's played alongside with decent success before. I'm not sure the point in binning the guy off. Meant to add to my original response I’d agree with this that his prior record looks good, albeit in a weaker league. I was pretty positive when we signed him and disappointing he had such a slow start due to injuries. But I also don’t believe his (admittedly limited) performances to date for us have shown much other than a technical tidy but somewhat ineffectual, occasionally poor (Utd at home for example) player and that this is probably a part of why, rightly or wrongly, he hasn’t had more playing time. Edited August 30, 2022 by tomsky_11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, ciggiesnbeer said: Tell us the reasons you rate Sanson at Aston Villa and provide detail. Have done several times in here pal. You've been asked why you don't rate him and haven't given a proper answer, you've just said he's a dud and that's it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, tomsky_11 said: Meant to add to my original response I’d agree with this that his prior record looks good, albeit in a weaker league. I was pretty positive when we signed him and disappointing he had such a slow start due to injuries. But I also don’t believe his (admittedly limited) performances to date for us have shown anything but a technical tidy but somewhat ineffectual, occasionally poor (Utd at home for example) player and that this is probably a part of why, rightly or wrongly, he hasn’t had more playing time. Not sure how you can say he's ineffectual, without a proper run of games. Most assists in Ligue 1 in one season certainly says he can be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, tomsky_11 said: No, as the point being made was around the fact he was dropped the next game, implying a fault of Gerrard as I understood it. Plus was stated he was voted motm ahead of Buendia. Buendia wasn’t our player the previous season and Sanson scored less than 5% of the motm vote for the game you’ve suggested. Well I'm not sure why anyone would point to that specific game in argument for his inclusion, he's had a few cameos and I'd say mixed performances in those, his debut he looked good but didn't make it long into the second half before being subbed, so not overly surprised he wasn't voted MOM. He's not completed 90 minutes for us, barely had any minutes total, certain not enough to build up any form. In my opinion he needs to play more before he's judged, but our midfield is not working and he could be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Just now, Tom13 said: Not sure how you can say he's ineffectual, without a proper run of games. Most assists in Ligue 1 in one season certainly says he can be effective. This was specifically with reference to his… 3 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: (admittedly limited) performances to date for us He’s absolutely performed well in Ligue 1 prior to joining us. But I’m not sure this is going to trump what the manager has seen first had in PL performances when it comes to team selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: In my opinion he needs to play more before he's judged, but our midfield is not working and he could be an option. Not for Steven he won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Meant to add to my original response I’d agree with this that his prior record looks good, albeit in a weaker league. I was pretty positive when we signed him and disappointing he had such a slow start due to injuries. But I also don’t believe his (admittedly limited) performances to date for us have shown much other than a technical tidy but somewhat ineffectual, occasionally poor (Utd at home for example) player and that this is probably a part of why, rightly or wrongly, he hasn’t had more playing time. I thought he did pretty well against Man Utd at home barring one incident (that led to a goal), and in fairness Mings got himself in a bit of trouble, Sanson went to give him an option, and Mings played him a bit of a hospital pass. I'd say the blame for that one should at least be shared. The problem is every time he's got minutes, he's either got injured, or been dropped the next game, he's not had anything like a run in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterDad Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: The Wolves game. Which we lost. Here is an article from this year by a Wolves reporter congratulating Wolves for avoiding getting suckered into buying Sanson to who they were linked previously. https://www.footballfancast.com/wolves-news/wolves-36m-transfer-howler-villa-sanson That’s an unrealistic stick to beat him with - you could flip it and argue that a player coming in from the cold proved to be our best player, and should have been rewarded with a start for the following game, based on him being our best performer - would you not think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I thought he did pretty well against Man Utd at home barring one incident (that led to a goal) Have to disagree with this I’m afraid, at least from what I remember thinking during the game. He’d come in for McGinn who operated right of the three, coming inside onto left foot making switches, pressuring oppo centre offensively and opening space right for Cash. Sanson in this role seemed to get forced wide right frequently by Utd’s midfield, blocking space for Cash and running into dead ends. Same as in other games, he looked technically tidy on ball but ultimately had little impact. I might be remembering wrong but was he involved in conceding the free kick that Utd’s first came from as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, tomsky_11 said: Have to disagree with this I’m afraid, at least from what I remember thinking during the game. He’d come in for McGinn who operated right of the three, coming inside onto left foot making switches, pressuring oppo centre offensively and opening space right for Cash. Sanson in this role seemed to get forced wide right frequently by Utd’s midfield, blocking space for Cash and running into dead ends. Same as in other games, he looked technically tidy on ball but ultimately had little impact. I might be remembering wrong but was he involved in conceding the free kick that Utd’s first came from as well? Possibly, my memory of that game is not great, just another up and down team performance like so many others and he seemed to do okay from memory, tidy on the ball and showing for it, being an out ball for the defence rather than running off up field the second we get possession, it was refreshing. I think another thing that gets overlooked a little is, it's not like he's come in to a settled confident club/environment, it's been a total mess in terms of the switch of manager and tactics and coupled with his luck with injuries it's really not conducive to good performance. You can't expect to get good performance when the minutes are here and there and often months apart. He's simply not played enough and not had a run of any kind in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Have to disagree with this I’m afraid, at least from what I remember thinking during the game. He’d come in for McGinn who operated right of the three, coming inside onto left foot making switches, pressuring oppo centre offensively and opening space right for Cash. Sanson in this role seemed to get forced wide right frequently by Utd’s midfield, blocking space for Cash and running into dead ends. Same as in other games, he looked technically tidy on ball but ultimately had little impact. I might be remembering wrong but was he involved in conceding the free kick that Utd’s first came from as well? I take your point on not doing the same job as McGinn, but then it's a weird role that took McGinn himself a number of games to get used to, our 8's being so involved in getting the fullbacks up the pitch and covering them is pretty unusual and not something I'd expect most number 8's to be able to do off the cuff as it were. It's not like he'd had a run of games to get used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: Possibly, my memory of that game is not great, just another up and down team performance like so many others and he seemed to do okay from memory, tidy on the ball and showing for it, being an out ball for the defence rather than running off up field the second we get possession, it was refreshing. I think another thing that gets overlooked a little is, it's not like he's come in to a settled confident club/environment, it's been a total mess in terms of the switch of manager and tactics and coupled with his luck with injuries it's really not conducive to good performance. You can't expect to get good performance when the minutes are here and there and often months apart. He's simply not played enough and not had a run of any kind in the team. Agree. But I guess maybe it comes down to the manager deciding right now it’s better to play McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, who he’s seen are capable of giving 8/9 out of 10 performances rather than Sanson who he’s maybe only ever seen give 5/6/7s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2022 I see Sanson is suffering from a serious case of Salifou syndrome 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Is he a good player, he was before he arrived at Villa has he been good when he has played for us? Mostly he looked between good and ok, but never worse than any other of our midfield will he play under Gerrard, NO, so not much point in this thread until Gerrard leaves. Sanson has clearly gone from a fringe squad player to not even making the squad, possibly because of a social media post and Stevie G being a petty douche, or because he has turned down a move somewhere else and is now being punished, as rumours of a move to Turkey where circulating as that is where Villa players go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Agree. But I guess maybe it comes down to the manager deciding right now it’s better to play McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, who he’s seen are capable of giving 8/9 out of 10 performances rather than Sanson who he’s maybe only ever seen give 5/6/7s. You've lost credibility mentioning McGinn giving 8/9 out of 10 performances. That just doesn't happen. PS a midfielder doesn't need to give standout performances, would be great if they could just help us keep the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Just now, tomsky_11 said: Agree. But I guess maybe it comes down to the manager deciding right now it’s better to play McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, who he’s seen are capable of giving 8/9 out of 10 performances rather than Sanson who he’s maybe only ever seen give 5/6/7s. It's his head on the line, but form comes and goes, Ramsey was overplayed last season, McGinn seems to be having a crisis of form/confidence so far this season, a little more rotation and man management last season and he could of had a decent midfielder ready to come in and help out right now. That is not currently the case, I don't know if he was expecting another signing in midfield, but I see no benefit in ostracising Sanson either way. It's poor man management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I take your point on not doing the same job as McGinn, but then it's a weird role that took McGinn himself a number of games to get used to, our 8's being so involved in getting the fullbacks up the pitch and covering them is pretty unusual and not something I'd expect most number 8's to be able to do off the cuff as it were. It's not like he'd had a run of games to get used it. It is maybe a weird role. But also think, at least on the defensive end it was picked up quite quickly by McGinn. Can’t remember off head the specifics of his performance in first games but as a team I certainly remember many aspects of the defensive changes showing in the first half of Gerrard’s first game. I think Sanson maybe not performing the role quite as required plus one, maybe two stand out errors in that game was probably not enough of a performance to earn him a run of games at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: It is maybe a weird role. But also think, at least on the defensive end it was picked up quite quickly by McGinn. Can’t remember off head the specifics of his performance in first games but as a team I certainly remember many aspects of the defensive changes showing in the first half of Gerrard’s first game. I think Sanson maybe not performing the role quite as required plus one, maybe two stand out errors in that game was probably not enough of a performance to earn him a run of games at the time. The issue I would say is players have had considerably worse performances than that numerous times and kept their places, both McGinn and Ramsey included, if he has to be perfect every time he plays it's no wonder he's not been given many minutes. I don't think the 8's as we play them particularly suits his game and maybe he has struggled to adapt, but it's difficult to know when we've barely seen him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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