Winter Olympics PyeongChang 2018

[Jarpie]

1 minute ago, Michelsen said:

Oh, and may I also just say that WE FREAKING RULE! the Winter Olympics?  

*Cough* with asthmatic athletes *cough*... for such a sick athletes they are sure very dominating...

[sne]

10 minutes ago, Jarpie said:

*Cough* with asthmatic athletes *cough*... for such a sick athletes they are sure very dominating...

A steady diet of Röyk & Cola and £25 Pizza pies is what does it believe.

Edited February 25, 2018 by sne

[HanoiVillan]

Can I just say that I'm absolutely loving the cross-Scandinavian bantering in this thread? 

It's even better that, despite talking in perfect English, I still don't have a **** clue what any of you are talking about. 

[El Zen]

2 hours ago, Jarpie said:

*Cough* with asthmatic athletes *cough*... for such a sick athletes they are sure very dominating...

Eventually, one day, you will

Possibly get

Over it... 

 

[Danwichmann]

14 hours ago, sne said:

As predicted with the games now over and the athletes returning home the complaints about the games from them are starting.

One of the first out is the biggest name in the alpine skiing world Marcel Hirschel (2 golds this time) who has slammed the living conditions in the Olympic village and most of all the almost empty stadiums during the events.

I get the financial reasons for putting the Olympics in a sponsor rich place like South Korea, and with 26 million people in a 100 km radius of Pyeongchang there should on paper be enough to fill the stadiums.

But people from the traditional winter Olympic countries won't travel en masse this far, and apparently they failed to sell the happening to the locals.

There are only so many people you can fit in a Short Track skating stadium.

Was a bit bizarre watching all these events in almost empty stadiums when you compare it to let's say Lillehammer.

Just put the Winter Olympics in Norway every time 

I'm living in S Korea at the moment and went to 4 events. Most of the locals I spoke to weren't uninterested, but they were just put off by the ticket prices. I know quite a few people who went to the Olympic Park and host 'cities' for a day to be 'a part of it' but wouldn't shell out the $40-$60 that most of the basic tickets cost. They also didn't care about the non-Korean athletes.  I can't remember seeing a single event with no Korean athletes covered on TV, apart from the Ice Hockey gold medal game. At the curling I was at the Korean team finished early and half the stadium left immediately, no interest in seeing the 3 other matches still continuing.

[Jarpie]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Can I just say that I'm absolutely loving the cross-Scandinavian bantering in this thread? 

It's even better that, despite talking in perfect English, I still don't have a **** clue what any of you are talking about. 

Norwegian cross-country skiers  use asthma medication, either because they (supposedly) have respiratory ailments or as "preventive measure". There was Danish study done, which confirms that some asthma medication has "anabolic effect", like steroids give, I'll try to find the study later and check if they mention the drugs, and are they the ones Norwegians use. I wonder if Michelsen admits that Björgen being still on top at age 37 looks fishy, as I have not seen any athlete who does not drastically start to slow down after the (very) early 30s, especially in any sport which relies on speed and endurance, like cross-country skiing.

Plus it's not like they don't have athletes (relatively recently) getting caught for using doping...oh wait, they do... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therese_Johaug#Doping

And don't give me crap about "accidentally using lip salve", if I remember correctly, the amount found from her sample would've been impossible to get from normal usage. At least we owned our crap from Lahti 2001. Niskanen should've trolled the norwegians by praising Myllylä again.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Jarpie

[HanoiVillan]

All sounds fairly similar to my favoured sport of cycling, in which Europe's premier hayfever and asthma sufferers wheeze their way over a selection of cols and through maize fields as if that might be a sensible thing to do.

[sne]

They are just exploiting a gap in the legislation. This type of asthma medication use on an industrial scale will soon be banned.

Just like the use of heart medicines like the Russian favorite Meldonium was banned at the start of 2016.  Up til then it was legal, then over night countless of Russian (and other countries) were cheating and the worst people who ever lived.

The name of the game is to be a few steps ahead of the legislation's and use stuff that's either not yet banned or the stuff that the tests can't yet pick up.

It also helps if you can influence the ones who decides what is illegal and what is not. I doubt it was a coincidence that Medonium,  the Russian drug of choice  was banned just before the Summer Olympics.

IMO Russia is no worse than many other countries, they do it on the old Soviet government funded way, same as China (and probably Turkey, Bulgaria...) while other countries like the US, Jamaica, Spain, Kenya, have smaller training teams with their own doctors and funding. 

Was pretty fun watching the US be both outraged about Russian doping and squirming to avoid questions about Justin Gatling at the Olympics in Rio and the World Championships in London.

Edited February 26, 2018 by sne

[sne]

And predictably the Washington Post are reporting that it was "The Russians" who made sure there were no spectators at the opening and closing ceremony by hacking the computer's so people could not print out their tickets...

Quote

Russian spies hacked the Olympics and tried to make it look like North Korea did it, U.S. officials say

 

 

Russian military spies hacked several hundred computers used by authorities at the 2018 Winter Olympic Games in South Korea, according to U.S. intelligence.

They did so while trying to make it appear as though the intrusion was conducted by North Korea, what is known as a “false-flag” operation, said two U.S. officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.

Officials in PyeongChang acknowledged that the Games were hit by a cyberattack during the Feb. 9 Opening Ceremonies but had refused to confirm whether Russia was responsible. That evening there were disruptions to the Internet, broadcast systems and the Olympics website. Many attendees were unable to print their tickets for the ceremony, resulting in empty seats.

Analysts surmise the disruption was retaliation against the International Olympic Committee for banning the Russian team from the Winter Games due to doping violations. No officials from Russia’s Olympic federation were allowed to attend, and while some athletes were permitted to compete under the designation “Olympic Athletes from Russia,” they were unable to display the Russian flag on their uniforms and, if they won medals, their country’s anthem was not played.

As of early February, the Russian military agency GRU had access to as many as 300 Olympic-related computers, according to an intelligence report this month.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment.

The intelligence, which has not been publicly affirmed, is consistent with reports from private-sector analysts who have said they saw signs Russia had targeted the 2018 Olympics. It also would continue a pattern of such attempts, including during the 2016 Summer Games in Rio de Janeiro.

Some U.S. officials are concerned the Russians may try to disrupt the Closing Ceremonies on Sunday. “We’re watching it pretty closely,” said one. “It’s essentially a Korean problem,” the official added. “We will help the Koreans as requested.”

Apart from accessing the computers, GRU cyber-operators also hacked routers in South Korea last month and deployed new malware on the day the Olympics began, according to Western intelligence agencies. Such access could enable intelligence collection or network attacks, officials said.

It is not clear whether the disruptions during the Opening Ceremonies were the result of that access, but the development is concerning regardless, information security experts said.

“Anyone who controls a router would be able to redirect traffic for one or more selected targets or cause total disruption in the network by stopping the routing entirely,” said Jake Williams, a former National Security Agency cyber-operator and co-founder of Rendition Infosec, a cybersecurity firm.

“Development of router malware is extremely costly, and Russia would likely use it only in locations where it contributes to accomplishing a high-value goal,” said Williams.

The GRU hackers are thought to work for the agency’s Main Center for Special Technology, or GTsST, according to intelligence agencies. That unit has been highly active in information warfare against the West and was behind the NotPetya cyberattack that crippled computers in Ukraine last year.

Two years ago, the GRU penetrated a database containing drug test results and confidential medical data, and posted information about noteworthy U.S. athletes including tennis stars Serena and Venus Williams, four-time gymnastics gold medalist Simone Biles and women’s basketball standout Elena Delle Donne.

That action was widely seen as payback after nearly every member of Russia’s track and field team was banned from the 2016 Olympics. Numerous investigations uncovered a widespread, government-run doping scheme that dated back years.

Russia has a long history of undertaking such “active measures” against the Olympic Games, noted Thomas Rid, a professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University. During the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles, Soviet intelligence released fake Ku Klux Klan leaflets threatening violence against African athletes as part of an effort to embarrass the United States, he said. That year, the Soviets led a 14-nation boycott of the Games in retaliation for a U.S. boycott of the 1980 Summer Games in Moscow, which was prompted by the Soviets’ 1979 invasion of Afghanistan.

The 1984 effort failed, Rid said, because the U.S. government “very quickly” revealed the Soviet attempt. As a result, no African athletes withdrew from the Games.

While “old-school” tactics relied on leaflets among other things, the Internet has provided new tools to spread disinformation, he said.

In this case, the GRU sought to make it appear as though the intrusions were the work of North Korean hackers by using North Korean IP addresses and other tactics, said the officials. Such deception is common for the GRU.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-spies-hacked-the-olympics-and-tried-to-make-it-look-like-north-korea-did-it-us-officials-say/2018/02/24/44b5468e-18f2-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?utm_term=.1f608234c449

The neo McCarthyism is strong

[El Zen]

3 hours ago, Jarpie said:

Norwegian cross-country skiers  use asthma medication, either because they (supposedly) have respiratory ailments or as "preventive measure". There was Danish study done, which confirms that some asthma medication has "anabolic effect", like steroids give, I'll try to find the study later and check if they mention the drugs, and are they the ones Norwegians use. I wonder if Michelsen admits that Björgen being still on top at age 37 looks fishy, as I have not seen any athlete who does not drastically start to slow down after the (very) early 30s, especially in any sport which relies on speed and endurance, like cross-country skiing.

Plus it's not like they don't have athletes (relatively recently) getting caught for using doping...oh wait, they do... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therese_Johaug#Doping

And don't give me crap about "accidentally using lip salve", if I remember correctly, the amount found from her sample would've been impossible to get from normal usage. At least we owned our crap from Lahti 2001. Niskanen should've trolled the norwegians by praising Myllylä again.

Comparing perfectly legal asthma medication to EPO isn’t very helpful, is it? I thought you were half-kidding earlier, as I have no problem understanding that the volume of it looks OTTP, but it seems not. 

There is no secrecy surrounding the use of asthma medication in Norwegian cross country. It’s all out in the open. They’re not doing anything anyone else couldn’t legally do. There are no excemptions for Norwegian athletes, no preferrential treatment. If you think we’re winning because of asthma medication, I think you’re wrong. 

As for Bjorgen, she has slowed down significantly. She hasn’t been in a sprint final for years. Endurance is different, and easier to maintain. I am 100 per cent sure Bjørgen is clean. 

Johaug got her suspention as she deserved. Do I think it was intentional? No, I don’t. And neither do the courts, by the way, hence the relatively short suspension. The courts found no reason to doubt any part of her explanation of the facts. It would also be insanely stupid of her, if she wanted to cheat, to choose clostebol of all things. She is, however, responsible for what happened and has been punished accordingly. 

[Jarpie]

2 hours ago, Michelsen said:

Comparing perfectly legal asthma medication to EPO isn’t very helpful, is it? I thought you were half-kidding earlier, as I have no problem understanding that the volume of it looks OTTP, but it seems not. 

There is no secrecy surrounding the use of asthma medication in Norwegian cross country. It’s all out in the open. They’re not doing anything anyone else couldn’t legally do. There are no excemptions for Norwegian athletes, no preferrential treatment. If you think we’re winning because of asthma medication, I think you’re wrong. 

As for Bjorgen, she has slowed down significantly. She hasn’t been in a sprint final for years. Endurance is different, and easier to maintain. I am 100 per cent sure Bjørgen is clean. 

Johaug got her suspention as she deserved. Do I think it was intentional? No, I don’t. And neither do the courts, by the way, hence the relatively short suspension. The courts found no reason to doubt any part of her explanation of the facts. It would also be insanely stupid of her, if she wanted to cheat, to choose clostebol of all things. She is, however, responsible for what happened and has been punished accordingly. 

This is probably off-topic for this topic, but let's continue. I found the study but it's very technical so I didn't get much out of it, but the articles I found referencing it says that asthma medication has anabolic effect on skeletal muscle, similar to steroids, so it does help, are you really going to say that's not true? No idea how much athletes from other countries uses it though, but it was reported that norwegians brought ten times as much medication as finland did. I don't think it is just the asthma medication, but I do believe it is part of it,

I think it'd be incredibly naive to think that any top 20 athlete in any sport which relies on speed and endurance would be 100% clean, and I repeat, any athlete. In the 90s people thought that the crazy days of the 80s doping were behind, but after those hemoglobin measurements were revealed in that one swedish documentary, that pretty much all cross-country athletes during the 90s had crazy high hemoglobin values, which according to the doctors couldn't been achieved normally.

I am cynical, but it is the human nature trying to find a way to get advantage over others, especially when it comes to the incredibly ambitious people, which athletes are. There's also the money issue, there's a lot of money involved in the sports, so if people in other areas of life are cheating to gain advantage, or gain money, why would athletes be any different?

About Johaug and did she take it on accident or not... people can do stupid things, maybe she thought it wouldn't show up in the tests (as the substances will vanish from the body after certain time) or did some miscalculation etc, who knows. I don't believe Myllyläs compatriots like Jari Isometsä that they didn't use doping, and I don't believe Johaug's excuses either.

[El Zen]

1 hour ago, Jarpie said:

This is probably off-topic for this topic, but let's continue. I found the study but it's very technical so I didn't get much out of it, but the articles I found referencing it says that asthma medication has anabolic effect on skeletal muscle, similar to steroids, so it does help, are you really going to say that's not true?

I have no idea if it’s true or not, or wether it’s true for all asthma meds or just some. I have no idea. I am saying that they’re not doing anything that others can’t legally do as well - there is no conspiracy, no secrecy. Again, steroids or steroid proxies would also be a weird drug of choice if you wanted to cheat at cross country. 

(...)

I think it'd be incredibly naive to think that any top 20 athlete in any sport which relies on speed and endurance would be 100% clean, and I repeat, any athlete.

Niskanen too then, presumably? I’m not going to think that way about people I have not seen a shred of evidence to suggest any foul play. Innocent until proven guilty should go for athletes as well.

In the 90s people thought that the crazy days of the 80s doping were behind, but after those hemoglobin measurements were revealed in that one swedish documentary, that pretty much all cross-country athletes during the 90s had crazy high hemoglobin values, which according to the doctors couldn't been achieved normally.

Which of the multiple widely discredited Swedish documentaries would that be, then? 

Quote

About Johaug and did she take it on accident or not... people can do stupid things, maybe she thought it wouldn't show up in the tests (as the substances will vanish from the body after certain time) or did some miscalculation etc, who knows. I don't believe Myllyläs compatriots like Jari Isometsä that they didn't use doping, and I don't believe Johaug's excuses either.

That’s fine if you don’t. But every legal body to hear the case has. She knowingly used a lip balm to treat a well documented severe sun burn, not knowing that the balm given to her by the long since resigned team doctor contained the illegal substance clostebol. Her sample showed, iirc, a very small, non-performance enhancing amount of an illegal substance. The courts believed her story, as it is well documented and very plausible, and gave her a relatively minimal yet severe suspension. Which I have no problem admitting, given the presedence set by other cases, wasn’t entirely unjust. Johaug’s case does not, as the courts have clearly stated, suggest any intent to cheat, and it certainly does not suggest systematic cheating in Norwegian cross country. 

There seems to be a need among some in Finland, after the debacle of 2001, to prove that ‘everyone else were doing it too’. I really wish you’d stop that, because there really is no need. Your have some fantastic young athletes representing your country today, tomorrow and for years to come. Your post suggests they’re not clean either. They deserve better than that. 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Michelsen

[magnkarl]

18 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Can I just say that I'm absolutely loving the cross-Scandinavian bantering in this thread? 

It's even better that, despite talking in perfect English, I still don't have a **** clue what any of you are talking about. 

Psst, don't tell the Finns but Finland isn't part of Scandinavia.. They're more Russian really.. (Also they're really salty about getting caught at doping when the transfusion bags were thrown out of the window of their hotel after use).

From experience it goes like this:

Norwegians prefer Swedes, Swedes prefer Norwegians and Danes prefer themselves - however they all think Finns are weird. A joke once told to me by a Swede;

"An introvert Finn will look at his shoes when he's talking to you. An extrovert Finn will look at your shoes when he's talking to you."

Time to run away from the fire!

[StefanAVFC]

Calling @villarule123

[Jarpie]

7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Psst, don't tell the Finns but Finland isn't part of Scandinavia.. They're more Russian really.. (Also they're really salty about getting caught at doping when the transfusion bags were thrown out of the window of their hotel after use).

From experience it goes like this:

Norwegians prefer Swedes, Swedes prefer Norwegians and Danes prefer themselves - however they all think Finns are weird. A joke once told to me by a Swede;

"An introvert Finn will look at his shoes when he's talking to you. An extrovert Finn will look at your shoes when he's talking to you."

Time to run away from the fire!

We're mongols, don't you know? Also swedes should be afraid...

We are actually proud of being introverted, grumpy and weird. Any finn who says we're not crazy, is lying to you or to themselves

And it is true that we're not scandinavians, IIRC a lot of finnish populace/ancestry is from siberia or from where the hungary is, as finns and hungarians share the same language tree, and genetics too if I'm not mistaken. Although afaik some (or many) finns who are from the western coast does share ancestry with the swedes/norwegians/danes.

Also @Michelsen, I guess we have to agree to disagree, and yes, I'd love to say "No, I don't think any finnish athlete doesn't use any kind of doping", but if I'd suspect it from someone else, I'd have to admit that finnish athletes are not any different. I might come off as more serious in my posts than I intended, but this is not really serious subject for me, as I don't think it's really THAT important thing in the grand scheme of things, it's just sports. I still love to watch sports, and I cheer when finns win (or swedes and norwegians lose ;)), I think people generally tends to take things too seriously when it doesn't really affect them.

When it comes to success in the cross-country skiing...if our state really wanted us to be as successful as Norway, we'd need to pump a lot more money into it, they say that they'd rather put money into getting children and adults to "move", than put tax money for professional sports, but I disagree with that. They should put money into both, the success in the competitions will inspire people to do sports too, now that Niskanen won the 50km, I expect to see more people getting into skiing too, especially youth. One of my mottos is that never put people on pedestal, never, so I always expect them to do the same shit what other people do, maybe this explains my thinking. I wonder if there's been anything similar in Norway where the media has absolutely hounded athlete (or any other celebrity) partially causing their death, as I think our media did with Myllylä, who was partially broken by the constant media attention. I think we can agree that media is full of scumbags running after "OMG LOOK THE PICTURES! SHOCK HORROR!" headlines.

[El Zen]

41 minutes ago, Jarpie said:

Also @Michelsen, I guess we have to agree to disagree

(...)

I wonder if there's been anything similar in Norway where the media has absolutely hounded athlete (or any other celebrity) partially causing their death, as I think our media did with Myllylä, who was partially broken by the constant media attention. 

Fairy nuff 

Yes, we have. The press more or less drove a former cabinet minister to suicide a few years ago. Nasty business.