The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[bannedfromHandV]

48 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think this is nonsense to be honest

So you absolutely do not believe that VAR has in any way been used to manipulate better outcomes for preferred teams/situations?

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Your staunch defence of VAR is getting as tiresome as the thing itself.

Can you not see how it’s affected the game, honestly - did you celebrate the Watkins goal when it went in?

I don't really defend it. I pretty much hate it. 

But that doesn't mean absolutely everything it does is wrong so when I'm here defending it on the odd decision people think I'm a staunch defender

Yes I celebrated the Watkins goal. I was gutted when it was ruled out. But it was offside. Shit happens

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

So you absolutely do not believe that VAR has in any way been used to manipulate better outcomes for preferred teams/situations?

Not explicitly no. I think certain decisions still favour big teams like they always have which is incredibly frustrating.

But do I think it is explicitly corrupt? No. Do I think they're sitting there and saying "Man Utd can't lose this match, make sure you give that decision"? Of course they're not.

 

And do I think the Saudi takeover has meant Newcastle are now having VAR manipulate in their favour? Obviously not. It's a ludicrous siggestion

[villa4europe]

yeah i agree with that, i think all VAR is doing is magnifying what we already knew and thought

big teams at home still get seemingly preferential treatment

or refs are inept

the two are not mutually exclusive...I think refs are pressured to give bigger teams decisions at home, that's the way its always been, VAR doesn't change that but that pressure comes from the crowd and the setting rather than their bosses (i think...)

the one thing i think VAR has shown is that its not the technology or the concept that is broken, its our refs and PGMOL, the notion that we need to bin VAR off and just go back to what we had is something i disagree with, we need better refs, more professional refs and younger more athletic refs, not a clue why PGMOL put so much emphasis on experience when it seemingly means **** all, the problem with refs is bigger than these offsides and dodgy penalties, theres at least 1 bizarre goal kick given as a corner every game, throw ins the wrong way too, a couple of yellows not given, someone snapped in half no free kick followed by someone falling over their own shadow being a booking, its not good enough

Newcastle are not getting preferential treatment (yet) that offside was not because they want newcastle to stay up 

[bannedfromHandV]

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Not explicitly no. I think certain decisions still favour big teams like they always have which is incredibly frustrating.

But do I think it is explicitly corrupt? No. Do I think they're sitting there and saying "Man Utd can't lose this match, make sure you give that decision"? Of course they're not.

 

And do I think the Saudi takeover has meant Newcastle are now having VAR manipulate in their favour? Obviously not. It's a ludicrous siggestion

Okay, if you think it’s ludicrous then I suggest you’ve had your head up your backside for the past 10-20 years.

Football has been geared toward promoting and rewarding the bigger clubs on an increasing scale for a long time now and I fully believe VAR is just another mechanism for enabling that continued favouritism.

As has been said, why did they spend less than 30 seconds reviewing United’s last minute winner versus the 3-4 minutes they spent on ours on the weekend, total farce.

[Stevo985]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Okay, if you think it’s ludicrous then I suggest you’ve had your head up your backside for the past 10-20 years.

Football has been geared toward promoting and rewarding the bigger clubs on an increasing scale for a long time now and I fully believe VAR is just another mechanism for enabling that continued favouritism.

As has been said, why did they spend less than 30 seconds reviewing United’s last minute winner versus the 3-4 minutes they spent on ours on the weekend, total farce.

That's fine.

I think suggesting there is explicit corruption throughout PGMOL/Premier league is conspiracy theory stuff. It would be the biggest scandal of all time in football.

 

I don't think I've got my head up my backside for not believing that referees and VAR are deliberately manipulating the outcome of matches

[Stevo985]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

 

Newcastle are not getting preferential treatment (yet) that offside was not because they want newcastle to stay up 

Correct. That offside was given because it was offside. If it was at the other end it would have been given in our favour too. And we'd all be applauding the decision

[bannedfromHandV]

Okay, once more then.

On what reasonable basis did they spend so little time in reviewing the United winning goal versus the minutes they spent (wasted as it turns out, which is another problem with VAR that you get hit with the double whammy of not getting the goal and seeing time drained out of the match) on ours?

What was so uniquely different about the two goals? 

[tom_avfc]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Correct. That offside was given because it was offside. If it was at the other end it would have been given in our favour too. And we'd all be applauding the decision

I’m not sure we would all be applauding the decision. I’d accept that the decision was right in the way that the system currently works. At the same time I’d still be of the belief that if you have to draw lines on a screen to determine whether something is on or offside that you should just go with the linesman’s decision.

To me the whole offside issue with toenails and heels is one of the clearest examples of where the rules need to adapt to work with VAR. Decisions might be right by the letter of the law but the law wasn’t decided with this technology in place.

Interestingly VAR looks to be being rolled out for the WSL and the EFL with fewer cameras and focussing only on obviously wrong decisions. I think this may be more what I’d want from VAR than what we’re getting at the moment to be honest. Somewhere in between the two would probably be ideal.

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

What was so uniquely different about the two goals? 

I don't know this for sure as I throw it out there... 

The refs 

Inconsistency across 2 different sets of officials

The problem is that's not a VAR thing, that's not an offside thing, it's across far too many aspects of the game and ultimately that is because of the fact that PGMOL are inept 

I don't believe it's corruption, there are times where the decision is so **** bad that corruption would be a better answer than ineptitude but honestly I think nearly all of these refs are properly dog shit at their jobs - but again that's PGMOL and how they're training them, what they're asking them to do and then the way that PGMOL relays this info to the public

I do think PGMOL has a huge problem with the number of rule tweaks they've made in the last decade and how badly they've got the information put there to the fans and even the players with then "clear and obvious" being the cherry on that steaming pile of shit 

[turvontour]

46 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

So you absolutely do not believe that VAR has in any way been used to manipulate better outcomes for preferred teams/situations?

Personally, it feels like there is a bias towards the bigger teams but I'm not sure that there actually is. Theres masses of decisions that go both for and against and its therefore easier to focus on the bigger teams calls that went for them.

What I dont like about it, and I mean really dont like about it, is the fact that fans and players cant celebrate tight goals anymore.

[bannedfromHandV]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I don't know this for sure as I throw it out there... 

The refs 

Inconsistency across 2 different sets of officials

The problem is that's not a VAR thing, that's not an offside thing, it's across far too many aspects of the game and ultimately that is because of the fact that PGMOL are inept 

I don't believe it's corruption, there are times where the decision is so **** bad that corruption would be a better answer than ineptitude but honestly I think nearly all of these refs are properly dog shit at their jobs - but again that's PGMOL and how they're training them, what they're asking them to do and then the way that PGMOL relays this info to the public

I do think PGMOL has a huge problem with the number of rule tweaks they've made in the last decade and how badly they've got the information put there to the fans and even the players with then "clear and obvious" being the cherry on that steaming pile of shit 

You often revert to ‘it’s not VAR’s fault, it’s the refs’ - and I think there is some merit in saying that but then that just deflects from the horror show that it is.

I don’t celebrate goals any more when watching on TV, unless it’s a 30 yarder or something similar where you feel it can’t possibly be overturned, even then you can’t be sure.

The impact this has had on the essence of the game is monumental, it’s not just a fan issue either, how many times do players barely celebrate any more as they’re unsure? 

Admittedly, I have a bee in my bonnet about it right now but I just don’t see how any self respecting football fan can want this cancer in the sport.

[Zatman]

I also dont celebrate goals anymore, you know the enjoyable part of the game that people get excited about. Even if the goal was allowed how can Watkins celebrate 3 minutes later as the moment is gone

[villa4europe]

Don't get me wrong I don't want VAR either - I think football has too many grey areas and incidents where they'll never get a "right" decision, forget offsides this whole contact + falling over is a penalty stuff is why they should knock it on the head imo if you can't get a 100% definitive right answer then you shouldn't piss around trying to get one and I don't buy in to this more right than wrong stuff 

But the standard of the refs in general is a bigger problem 

[Zatman]

Quote

 

Aston Villa 0

Overturns: 8
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 0
Net goal score: -2
Subjective decisions for: 2
Subjective decisions against: 3
Net subjective score: -1
Penalties for / against: 1 / 1
Red cards for / against: 1 / 0

Game: Newcastle (H; Aug. 21)
Incident: Penalty conceded (scored by Anwar El Ghazi) for handball by Jamaal Lascelles, 58th minute - FOR
Incident: Penalty for Newcastle cancelled for offside in the build-up against Callum Wilson, 76th minute - FOR

 

Game: Arsenal (A; Oct. 22)
Incident: Penalty conceded (missed by Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang but scored on the rebound) for a foul by Matt Targett on Alexandre Lacazette, 45th minute - AGAINST

Game: West Ham (H; Oct. 31)
Incident: Ezri Konsa yellow card upgraded to red for challenge on Jarrod Bowen (DOGSO), 49th minute - AGAINST

Game: Crystal Palace (A; Nov. 27)
Incident: Douglas Luiz red card rescinded following challenge on Cheikhou Kouyate, 72nd minute - FOR

Game: Leicester (H; Dec. 5)
Incident: Jacob Ramsey goal disallowed for kicking the ball from the possession of Kasper Schmeichel, 45th minute - AGAINST

Game: Newcastle (A; Feb. 13)
Incident: Penalty for Calum Chambers' challenge on Joe Willock cancelled, outside area, 61st minute - FOR
Incident: Ollie Watkins goal ruled out for offside, 61st minute - AGAINST

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4452736/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2021-22

 

Looking through the list of clubs decisions and VAR was relatively quiet until October and then it has become more involved again. Amazing Newcastle had 5 VAR decisions Against and Zero for before the new owners came in

[StefanAVFC]

59 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And we'd all be applauding the decision

Nah.

There was that Mane offside our first year back, he was offside by a mm on his shoulder.

It was a joke.

I would be laughing at how lucky we were if that decision against Newcastle goes the other way. I'd still think it's bollocks.

[Phil Silvers]

If the people that run this country are corrupt I'd say its entirely feasible that there is corruption at the big money end of sport, we know fifa and uefa are bent, I'm not naive enough to think corruption is not more widespread. 

Everything is bullshit rumours until its proven.

The more money in the game the better for these people and that's why all media and pgmol are behind Newcastle all of a sudden.

You only have to look at the new European club qualification weighting proposals, a close door unsporting get rich scheme out in the open that most will be brainwashed in to accepting.

The rich get richer and these people are leaving no stone unturned, much like our disallowed goal v ManU in the cup.

The accuracy used within the imagery and the drawing of lines is too vague, the rules are.becoming more and more vague. The more vague it becomes the more it is subject to interpretation and because of the money involved, manipulation. 

Var is a good idea that has been implemented and managed by incompetent people. If the refs favour the big clubs, var gives them the opportunity to give them something they may have missed.

It's spoiling the game.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

If the people that run this country are corrupt I'd say its entirely feasible that there is corruption at the big money end of sport, we know fifa and uefa are bent, I'm not naive enough to think corruption is not more widespread. 

Everything is bullshit rumours until its proven.

The more money in the game the better for these people and that's why all media and pgmol are behind Newcastle all of a sudden.

You only have to look at the new European club qualification weighting proposals, a close door unsporting get rich scheme out in the open that most will be brainwashed in to accepting.

The rich get richer and these people are leaving no stone unturned, much like our disallowed goal v ManU in the cup.

The accuracy used within the imagery and the drawing of lines is too vague, the rules are.becoming more and more vague. The more vague it becomes the more it is subject to interpretation and because of the money involved, manipulation. 

Var is a good idea that has been implemented and managed by incompetent people. If the refs favour the big clubs, var gives them the opportunity to give them something they may have missed.

It's spoiling the game.

I'm not saying there isn't corruption in the sport.

But do people really think that corruption is manifested by officials being (presumably) paid off to explicitly use VAR to manipulate the outcomes of matches?

Like really? Do you realise what a scandal that would be?

 

I just don't think there's any way it's that explicit

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Okay, once more then.

On what reasonable basis did they spend so little time in reviewing the United winning goal versus the minutes they spent (wasted as it turns out, which is another problem with VAR that you get hit with the double whammy of not getting the goal and seeing time drained out of the match) on ours?

What was so uniquely different about the two goals? 

Different scenarios, different refs, different margins, different cameras. Could be anything

I'm in total agreement that our one took way too long. Doesn't mean they made the wrong decision

[Phil Silvers]

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not saying there isn't corruption in the sport.

But do people really think that corruption is manifested by officials being (presumably) paid off to explicitly use VAR to manipulate the outcomes of matches?

Like really? Do you realise what a scandal that would be?

 

I just don't think there's any way it's that explicit

Then you are being naive.