Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[magnkarl]

9 hours ago, ender4 said:

And in 1.5 years there will be a Republican president (maybe Trump) who might side largely side with Russia. 

There's absolutely no way the republican party will want to be seen as pro-Russia. There's a major majority of voters in the U.S deeply in favour of US aid to Ukraine and the Republican party was never good at not being populists.

The wacky MAGA wing is getting ridiculed even by their own party.

[Guest av1]

11 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

The US are all in on this one IMO which is really good long term.

Just when I thought I was over the PTSD, the flashbacks return. 
 

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

3 minutes ago, av1 said:

Just when I thought I was over the PTSD, the flashbacks return. 
 

 

Were you in "Tropic Thunder" ? 

[avfc1982am]

Quite amusing the level of bullshit

 

Ukraine preparing to invade Moldova, claims Russia (msn.com)

Moscow has claimed Ukrainian troops plan to invade Moldova wearing Russian uniforms.

The extraordinary claim was made by the Russian defence ministry, which said Ukraine would stage some sort of false flag operation in order to justify the invasion of the separatist territory of Transnistria.

The tiny sliver of territory is formally part of Moldova but broke away in the early 1990s when the Soviet Union collapsed. A short war was fought between Moldova and separatist forces in which hundreds of people were killed.

Since then, around 1,300 Russian troops have occupied Transnistria, which is sandwiched between Ukraine and the rest of Moldova.

The defence ministry in Moscow accused Kyiv of wanting to stage an attack by purporting to be Russian forces.

That would then provide the pretext for a Ukrainian invasion of Moldova, the ministry said, according to the RIA news agency.

Mikhail Galuzin, Russia’s deputy foreign minister, was quoted by TASS news agency as saying that Western powers had ordered the government of Moldova to stop all interaction with the separatist authorities in Transnistria.

Moldova dismissed the claims a few hours after they were made.

The government in Chisinau, the Moldovan capital, issued a statement on the Telegram messaging app denying the allegations of an impending Ukrainian attack.

“We call for calm and for information to be received [by the public] from official and credible sources of the Republic of Moldova.

[sidcow]

So today is the anniversary and the day Russia were going to go for a big push.

Has (as some speculated) the big push actually been going on for some time now but nobody really noticed.

[magnkarl]

Sweet karma.

[magnkarl]

The three baltic states are now above or just below 1% of their GDP given to Ukraine in aid. All three countries have inflation that is double that of ours, and much harder times economically.

There really isn't an excuse not to arm Ukraine more.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The three baltic states are now above or just below 1% of their GDP given to Ukraine in aid. All three countries have inflation that is double that of ours, and much harder times economically.

There really isn't an excuse not to arm Ukraine more.

100% agree,  it's all on it's way.  We need to be patient,  I would rather wait until all weaponry introduced onto the battlefield can be used to its full potential with expert users and the support structure to back them up.  Otherwise Ukraine will just be doing the same as Russia,  untrained soldiers in machinery they don't know,  except a lot more expensive.  Ukraine is using Russia designed tanks from the 70's and still beating Russia in terms of tank warfare,    

 The game will change as soon as the Leopard II's arrive,  if they go with these properly (200+) it's all over,  Russia cannot stop these tanks.  I would be astonished if they destroyed even 5% once they get going.  If it sees you and shoots at you,  that's it,  over.

Once they break it then we will see it was worth the pause (I hope)

Russia comes across as some sort of Hive Mind with Putin the biggest Queen going,  but it isn't.  Russia needs the defense not to fail anywhere at all for the next 3 months.  So full supply and logistics across the whole front with no mistakes or running out of this or that.  Even a NATO trained army would struggle with this logistically for a length of time.  

[ender4]

12 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The three baltic states are now above or just below 1% of their GDP given to Ukraine in aid. All three countries have inflation that is double that of ours, and much harder times economically.

There really isn't an excuse not to arm Ukraine more.

It's soon going to get to the point where there isn't much spare weaponry in Europe to give to Ukraine without degrading their own frontline equipment.

Unless European countries start buying more equipment, but i'm guessing even that probably has a lead time measured in months or years.

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

100% agree,  it's all on it's way.  We need to be patient,  I would rather wait until all weaponry introduced onto the battlefield can be used to its full potential with expert users and the support structure to back them up.  Otherwise Ukraine will just be doing the same as Russia,  untrained soldiers in machinery they don't know,  except a lot more expensive.  Ukraine is using Russia designed tanks from the 70's and still beating Russia in terms of tank warfare,    

 The game will change as soon as the Leopard II's arrive,  if they go with these properly (200+) it's all over,  Russia cannot stop these tanks.  I would be astonished if they destroyed even 5% once they get going.  If it sees you and shoots at you,  that's it,  over.

Once they break it then we will see it was worth the pause (I hope)

Russia comes across as some sort of Hive Mind with Putin the biggest Queen going,  but it isn't.  Russia needs the defense not to fail anywhere at all for the next 3 months.  So full supply and logistics across the whole front with no mistakes or running out of this or that.  Even a NATO trained army would struggle with this logistically for a length of time.  

Just on the Leopard point, excuse my ignorance, but what makes this tank so special? Can they not just go in with 200 of their own tanks now and it be the same outcome? Can you not bring down a Leopard tank? Probably sounds like a stupid question I know! 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

18 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Just on the Leopard point, excuse my ignorance, but what makes this tank so special? Can they not just go in with 200 of their own tanks now and it be the same outcome? Can you not bring down a Leopard tank? Probably sounds like a stupid question I know! 

The Leopard 2 tank is considered to be one of the most advanced and effective main battle tanks in the world, and it has several features that could make it a valuable asset for Ukraine in the event that they acquire them in the numbers I would like to see.

Firstly, the Leopard 2 is known for its excellent armor protection, which is critical in modern warfare, particularly in urban environments where tanks may be vulnerable to ambushes and improvised explosive devices (IEDs). The Leopard 2's armor has been designed to withstand a wide range of threats, including shaped charges, kinetic energy penetrators, and RPGs.

Secondly, the Leopard 2 has a powerful and accurate main gun, which is capable of engaging targets at long range with high precision. The tank's gun can fire a range of different types of ammunition, including armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS), high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT), and high-explosive fragmentation (HEF) rounds, giving it flexibility in different combat scenarios.

Thirdly, the Leopard 2 is equipped with advanced fire control systems, including a laser rangefinder, thermal imaging sensors, and a stabilized gunner's sight, which allow it to engage targets with a high degree of accuracy and speed.  Compared to what they have now,  it's a different world.  It's harder to miss.

Overall, if Ukraine were to acquire Leopard 2 tanks, they could potentially provide significant benefits in terms of increased firepower, mobility, and protection for their armed forces. However, it is important to note that tanks alone are not sufficient to win a war, and a comprehensive strategy that includes effective tactics, logistics, and support systems is necessary to achieve military success.

The question is also,  how do you stop them from a Russian point of view?  If they attack one of these with a normal RPG,  that's just not good enough and how do do this without giving your positions away? (+NATO demands infantry / air artillary support with the tanks).  Used properly,  Russia might literally run away.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Funnily enough,  

This just happended 

Poland announces it has sent Leopard tanks to Ukraine

[magnkarl]

47 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

The Leopard 2 tank is considered to be one of the most advanced and effective main battle tanks in the world, and it has several features that could make it a valuable asset for Ukraine in the event that they acquire them in the numbers I would like to see.

Firstly, the Leopard 2 is known for its excellent armor protection, which is critical in modern warfare, particularly in urban environments where tanks may be vulnerable to ambushes and improvised explosive devices (IEDs). The Leopard 2's armor has been designed to withstand a wide range of threats, including shaped charges, kinetic energy penetrators, and RPGs.

Secondly, the Leopard 2 has a powerful and accurate main gun, which is capable of engaging targets at long range with high precision. The tank's gun can fire a range of different types of ammunition, including armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS), high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT), and high-explosive fragmentation (HEF) rounds, giving it flexibility in different combat scenarios.

Thirdly, the Leopard 2 is equipped with advanced fire control systems, including a laser rangefinder, thermal imaging sensors, and a stabilized gunner's sight, which allow it to engage targets with a high degree of accuracy and speed.  Compared to what they have now,  it's a different world.  It's harder to miss.

Overall, if Ukraine were to acquire Leopard 2 tanks, they could potentially provide significant benefits in terms of increased firepower, mobility, and protection for their armed forces. However, it is important to note that tanks alone are not sufficient to win a war, and a comprehensive strategy that includes effective tactics, logistics, and support systems is necessary to achieve military success.

The question is also,  how do you stop them from a Russian point of view?  If they attack one of these with a normal RPG,  that's just not good enough and how do do this without giving your positions away? (+NATO demands infantry / air artillary support with the tanks).  Used properly,  Russia might literally run away.

Just a word of caution on the Leopard 2, it's not invincible. Russian produced ATGMs have taken them out in Syria.

What they will enable for Ukraine is a much better protection than what they currently have. If they can work the Leopards together with the Bradleys, Marders and AMX-10s, they've got one hell of an offensive force. They will lose Leopards, but the Leopard is made to shield its crew so they can hopefully just jump into a new tank. It won't be like when the turret melts the crew due to the autoloader on the T-variants.

[villa89]

4 hours ago, sidcow said:

So today is the anniversary and the day Russia were going to go for a big push.

I never understood this line that Ukraine were pushing so hard. In a War you go a for a big push when you have an advantage or the resources or there's a likelihood of success. You don't do it because of a specific date or its Putin's birthday or something. 

[LondonLax]

16 minutes ago, villa89 said:

I never understood this line that Ukraine were pushing so hard. In a War you go a for a big push when you have an advantage or the resources or there's a likelihood of success. You don't do it because of a specific date or its Putin's birthday or something. 

That Ukraine were campaigning at the time to be given more resources for their spring offensive might have played into it. 

[villa89]

3 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

That Ukraine were campaigning at the time to be given more resources for their spring offensive might have played into it. 

That's what I assumed but it was pretty see through. I'm sure NATO know exactly what's going on in the region.

[ender4]

22 minutes ago, villa89 said:

In a War you go a for a big push when you have an advantage or the resources or there's a likelihood of success. You don't do it because of a specific date or its Putin's birthday or something. 

This is Putin you're talking about.  He'd love an extra big push for his birthday (hopefully out of a 32nd floor hotel window!)

[Mandy Lifeboats]

43 minutes ago, villa89 said:

I never understood this line that Ukraine were pushing so hard. In a War you go a for a big push when you have an advantage or the resources or there's a likelihood of success. You don't do it because of a specific date or its Putin's birthday or something. 

Unfortunately history is full of examples where that's exactly what happened.  

Stalin wanted the USSR flag flying over the Reichstag on 1 May 1945.  The USSR lost thousands of troops trying to achieve it.  They didn't make it.  In a desperate attempt to change history a Russian plane dropped a flag onto the roof.  Stalin was told that their flag was on top of the Reichstag. It was.  Sort of. 

The USSR took the building the following day.  But even then they changed history.  It was restaged for the cameras.  But even that was altered when someone noticed that the soldiers were wearing watches on both arms that they'd stolen. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Russia.  Misrepresenting history. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats
Added details

[avfc1982am]

7 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Were you in "Tropic Thunder" ? 

Steve G's backroom staff? Similar??