Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[avfc1982am]

Belgorod again. I think Ukraine might be preparing to push further into Luhansk again. An awful lot of ordinance being fired in and around Belgorod the last couple of weeks. Airport defences the other day, Power Station before that and now thi

 

[avfc1982am]

Good breakdown and general update considering info from frontlines is quite restricted at the moment.

 

[Panto_Villan]

Something I read today that I found a bit concerning is that the terrain around Kherson that makes re-taking it difficult (lots of open fields where artillery and long-range anti-tank weapons can smash up the Ukrainians as they mass for an attack) actually makes up most of the occupied land in the south.

If that's true, then Ukraine reclaiming all of their territory is going to be very difficult. The gains made around Kharkiv were helped by terrain that provided plenty of cover, and the (very slow) progress around Kherson was enabled by smashing the bridges over the river and cutting / reducing the flow of supplies to the Russian forces stationed there.

I'm not sure what the plan will be if the Ukrainians wanted to attack towards say Melitopol given they can't use either of those tactics there.

[avfc1982am]

2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Something I read today that I found a bit concerning is that the terrain around Kherson that makes re-taking it difficult (lots of open fields where artillery and long-range anti-tank weapons can smash up the Ukrainians as they mass for an attack) actually makes up most of the occupied land in the south.

If that's true, then Ukraine reclaiming all of their territory is going to be very difficult. The gains made around Kharkiv were helped by terrain that provided plenty of cover, and the (very slow) progress around Kherson was enabled by smashing the bridges over the river and cutting / reducing the flow of supplies to the Russian forces stationed there.

I'm not sure what the plan will be if the Ukrainians wanted to attack towards say Melitopol given they can't use either of those tactics there.

Your right and I think it's been mentioned before. The terrain is pretty flat in and around Kherson and low lying which is why the ground is so fertile and damp. It's one of the reasons they need to get a move on before they do get bogged down. The amount of river inlets makes it very difficult to advance in any one direction. 

The Northern offensive from Kharkiv has its own problems though, especially now. Most of the ground they (Ukraine) are trying to advance on is higher ground around the P66, and until they get East of it and control the higher ground taking Luhansk itself will be impossible. That high ground is approximately 90km long and stretches from Kreminna right up to Troitske on the Russian border. It's a barrier that will be difficult to overcome if defended well. 

Ukraine is supposedly using hit and run tactics across Russian lines in Kherson. Sooner or later, they will break through the Russian frontline somewhere and it will become manic imo. Russia will have the same issues in retreat as Ukraine are trying to advance being caught in the open. Also, do they fall back to the City and defend it or do they abandon it and escape across the Dnieper? Personally, I think Russia will see the City flattened before they walk away.  

Edited October 19, 2022 by avfc1982am

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

I wonder what will go down in Kherson then. They’ve brought in this new general, the one who was happy to use chemical weapons in Syria. Putin has declared Kherson as Russia now, and said they will defend it by any means necessary. UA are clearly advancing there and about to go on the offensive whilst Russia are saying they’ll be evacuating, something they’ve never done in regards to civilians throughout the entire war. Meanwhile Ben Wallace is rushed to DC for what you imagine is some sort of response committee to what’s about to happen. Reading between the lines, something very bad could be about to go down. I mean isnt this exactly why Surovikin has been put in charge now, to start using unconventional tactics to counter losses? 

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

2 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

Reading between the lines, something very bad could be about to go down. I mean isnt this exactly why Surovikin has been put in charge now, to start using unconventional tactics to counter losses? 

In my opinion…….

I don’t think something very bad is about to go down.  I think NATO is prepared for something very bad happening and would take unprecedented action if it did.  NATO is reminding Russia what they stand to lose.  
Any chemical or nuclear attack on Ukraine would see NATO fast reaction forces in Ukraine within hours.  
Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by inviting NATO into a war they are already struggling to win.  

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Something to hide? truly pathetic. Just kick them out already its a complete farce

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

26 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

Something to hide? truly pathetic. Just kick them out already its a complete farce

Treat them as an Alien race,  sub human.  They can create their own United words removed on their own if they want.

The way Russians talk about Ukraine is exactly how the world should speak about Russia. 

If Russia could build concentration camps as per WWII they would and have queues of people itching to work there.  Is it the Russian peoples fault? I don't really care at this point,  evil words removed.

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

49 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by inviting NATO into a war they are already struggling to win.  

Agreed,  Russia would get destroyed,  NATO soldiers are probably 10 times more effective than 1 Russian orc.

[Jareth]

Don't know if this was covered already but I would honestly like to know the reason that Israel is not arming Ukraine at all, given the actions of the Iranians, and the antisemitic rhetoric of the Russians throughout this war - what's stopping them? 

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Don't know if this was covered already but I would honestly like to know the reason that Israel is not arming Ukraine at all, given the actions of the Iranians, and the antisemitic rhetoric of the Russians throughout this war - what's stopping them? 

They've said they are suppling anti aircraft and missile systems already haven't they?

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Don't know if this was covered already but I would honestly like to know the reason that Israel is not arming Ukraine at all, given the actions of the Iranians, and the antisemitic rhetoric of the Russians throughout this war - what's stopping them? 

They are worried that their weapons my find their way into Russian hands and then in turn back to their sworn enemy, Iran.

As Shedcow says, they will be sending air defence weapons as this is considered less risky

[avfc1982am]

11 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Treat them as an Alien race,  sub human.  They can create their own United words removed on their own if they want.

The way Russians talk about Ukraine is exactly how the world should speak about Russia. 

If Russia could build concentration camps as per WWII they would and have queues of people itching to work there.  Is it the Russian peoples fault? I don't really care at this point,  evil words removed.

 

They already get treated as sub human by their own government. Everyone treating them the same is the norm hence the skewed view on the West as if somehow the Russian government isn't to blame for their ills. You only have to look the way Russia is governed by gangsters, it's still a feudal land in in its governance in many respects so won't be changing anytime soon and I don't think Russophobia will solve the problems that have already been created. 

[Jareth]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

They've said they are suppling anti aircraft and missile systems already haven't they?

 

[avfc1982am]

 

[avfc1982am]

Ukraine war: Our city Kherson was invaded - we stayed and filmed - BBC News

As Russia scrambles to pull its civilian staff out of the city of Kherson ahead of a Ukrainian counter-offensive, Ukrainian father Dmytro Bahnenko reflects on the months he and his family lived there under occupation and secretly filmed for BBC Eye at great personal risk.

"I saw a robot today," my five-year-old daughter Ksusha whispered to me as I filmed her underneath the table.

"It was flying… it wanted to kill me."

It wasn't clear what - if anything - Ksusha had seen that day to evoke the disturbing image. But evidently she was unsettled.

Nothing had been the same since Russian soldiers first marched past our window in the late afternoon of 1 March, and I began filming our lives for a BBC Eye documentary. My day job had been as a local reporter. Never did I think I would be filming an invasion of my home city - the only Ukrainian regional capital to have been captured.

How we shielded Ksusha from the brutality of Russia's invasion, and we ourselves remained sane, became central to our lives, as my wife Lidia and I grappled with our new reality.

In the first few days our city seemed frozen - I filmed the emptiness as schools stood closed, government buildings abandoned, and factories and offices empty. Most people laid low.

The Russian forces, having taken Kherson, were now trying to advance on nearby Mykolaiv, and were shelling ferociously. We dragged our mattresses into the corridor - away from the windows - and made up games to distract Ksusha. I became an expert in making shadow puppets, with spiders becoming my speciality. Lidia and I would whistle birdsong to try to drown out the noise as Ksusha fell asleep.

The irony is that for decades Ukraine helped feed the world, but in those first few days we were struggling to get hold of the most basic items.

"I managed to get the last potatoes," one man told me wearily as I was filming in the city centre one day in early March. It was not yet nine in the morning.

But the people of Kherson seemed anything but resigned to their fate. Protests against the occupation began early and grew in ferocity over the following few weeks. The Russian troops appeared shocked - in their minds they had arrived as "liberators"................

 

The article continues on the link above and the doc is also available on IPlayer(uk). Link to that at the bottom of the page.

 

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, Jareth said:

 

Sell, might be the important word in that statement

There does appear to be a lot of mixed messages over this issue coming from the Israeli government

[Mandy Lifeboats]

20 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Don't know if this was covered already but I would honestly like to know the reason that Israel is not arming Ukraine at all, given the actions of the Iranians, and the antisemitic rhetoric of the Russians throughout this war - what's stopping them? 

Israel has invaded and retained land in order to maintain their security.  They have also removed the population of that land and replaced it with their own people.    Sound familiar?  

[Jareth]

4 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Israel has invaded and retained land in order to maintain their security.  They have also removed the population of that land and replaced it with their own people.    Sound familiar?  

I know this can be applied to the Palestinian situation, but same can be said about quite a number of other countries historically. My suspicion is that they simply want to sit on the fence and are unwilling to damage their relationship with Russia - but perhaps the US should deduct the cost of weapons off what they give to Israel - if they continue to sit on that fence.