lexicon Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 11 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said: Right so the conclusion of the thread is Bruce should be judged on results, but his results are also meaningless or misleading. Bizarre. He should be judged on results but they themselves are currently inconclusive as they're neither bad nor good. It's almost as if the lack of black or white is messing with people's minds, as they can't work out that they don't need to be strongly for or against the manager. As with a lot of things, I blame brexit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, lexicon said: He should be judged on results but they themselves are currently inconclusive as they're neither bad nor good. It's almost as if the lack of black or white is messing with people's minds, as they can't work out that they don't need to be strongly for or against the manager. As with a lot of things, I blame brexit. Oh don't you worry, many a mind was made up before the season started and there'll be a price to pay suggesting otherwise. Choose a blumin pitch fork or I heart Bruce t-shirt, none of this waiting patiently to see if we'll get promoted snowflake attitude thank you very much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: Oh don't you worry, many a mind was made up before the season started and there'll be a price to pay suggesting otherwise. Choose a blumin pitch fork or I heart Bruce t-shirt, none of this waiting patiently to see if we'll get promoted snowflake attitude thank you very much. Might as well close the forum if you can only express opinions at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said: My point was, that Saunders was responsible for instilling that work ethic. That was his imprint stamped on the team. His players were always motivated, because if they wasn't questions would of been asked of him, why ? Because at the end of the day, no matter how you slice it up, the buck stops with the manager, and there can be no excuses for players not being up for it. The buck does stop with the manager......I find it hard to disagree with that sheepy, at least it is specific in the critique. I agree mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Might as well close the forum if you can only express opinions at the end of the season. Hey, why do you always take these comments so personally? I thought you loved having a laugh what with all these 'haha's and smiley laughing emoticons, c'mon man turn that frown upside down and get back to that loveable unrelentingly positive old joker we love so dearly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jareth said: Hey, why do you always take these comments so personally? I thought you loved having a laugh what with all these 'haha's and smiley laughing emoticons, c'mon man turn that frown upside down and get back to that loveable unrelentingly positive old joker we love so dearly. Haha who said i took it personally? I was pointing out a flaw in your logic that no one can hold an opinion until the season was over. Some may be happy to see what happens, some may have made up their mind that he is awful or he is the right man. What's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: Haha who said i took it personally? Haha, Err, me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: Haha, Err, me. Hows that big nose of yours?......er, not trying to be personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Hows that big nose of yours?......er, not trying to be personal. Nasophilliac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, lexicon said: He should be judged on results but they themselves are currently inconclusive as they're neither bad nor good. It's almost as if the lack of black or white is messing with people's minds, as they can't work out that they don't need to be strongly for or against the manager. As with a lot of things, I blame brexit. I think you are right...... just not sure what about. Edited April 9, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: Nasophilliac! I knew his brother......could sniff out an answer to anything. Edited April 9, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, TRO said: I knew his brother. Bruce's? You ARE Bruce's brother aren't you. Admit it ! But don't take it personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Jareth said: Haha, Err, me. Then not for the 1st time you're completely wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Bruce's? You ARE Bruce's brother aren't you. Admit it ! But don't take it personally. Ha Ha.....no just misunderstood on the defending of him. If you have the time and inclination, to go back through all my posts or even have been privvy to my thoughts on Managers, during discussions/banter in the Aston social etc , you will know, I am not as quick as some to blame the manager on a single reversal or a couple of games.....if it continues unabated over a given period of time, then he has to be blamed. I think if you read between the lines, I have not been entirely happy with the make up of this team, even during our emphatic wins, but its not a time to register that fear, after a win or a run of wins, because it most likely, will go misunderstood. I think we have proved we can beat anyone on our day, but to go 46 games, I think we lack muscle in certain positions and our play can get too easily negated.....we also lack pace, throughout which compounds the same problem, it has a knock on affect. We used to have an old reference years ago growing up on the streets ( to being accepted) we used to say: If you are not good looking and can't pull the birds If you can't tell jokes to attract the crowd and be popular If you can't Fight Or if you can't run fast. you are basically ****** ( and no one wants to know you) We have key things in footballing terms....... we lack. Edited April 9, 2018 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Yet the strong muscular Cardiff only have their result against us at their place keeping them more than 1 point ahead...... I think the criticism of this team is overdone....there but for a result or two we’d be in the Automatics. Whilst I fully accept that means disappointment and criticism I find it perplexing how and why people - nobody specifically - exaggerate the differences between the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yet the strong muscular Cardiff only have their result against us at their place keeping them more than 1 point ahead...... Good shout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yet the strong muscular Cardiff only have their result against us at their place keeping them more than 1 point ahead...... I think the criticism of this team is overdone....there but for a result or two we’d be in the Automatics. Whilst I fully accept that means disappointment and criticism I find it perplexing how and why people - nobody specifically - exaggerate the differences between the teams. Would it have something to do with the costs involved to build these respective teams ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Ha Ha.....no just misunderstood on the defending of him. If you have the time and inclination, to go back through all my posts or even have been privvy to my thoughts on Managers, during discussions/banter in the Aston social etc , you will know, I am not as quick as some to blame the manager on a single reversal or a couple of games.....if it continues unabated over a given period of time, then he has to be blamed. I think if you read between the lines, I have not been entirely happy with the make up of this team, even during our emphatic wins, but its not a time to register that fear, because it will go misunderstood. I think we have proved we can beat anyone on our day, but to go 46 games, I think we lack muscle in certain positions and our play can get too easily negated.....we also lack pace, throughout which compounds the same problem, it has a knock on affect. We used to have an old reference years ago growing up on the streets ( to being accepted) we used to say: If you are not good looking and can't pull the birds If you can't tell jokes to attract the crowd If you can't Fight Or if you can't run fast. you are basically ****** ( and no one wants to know you) We have key things in footballing terms....... we lack. so are you saying our players need more birds? Seriously, I don't read your mind. But I think you have a patient, long-term, view, but generally favorable. I have what I think is a patient long-term view, but generally not favorable. I think the difference comes down to why our performances are so inconsistent. You see one set of factors that are largely the responsibility of professional players. I see those, but think if it was one or two players (think Stephen Ireland), I could agree. But it's not. It's pervasive and one way or another that lies at the managers doorstep (IMO). I also see a bunch of other factors (that all need to be aligned, just to throw in some rocket science) that all lie with the manager. That lack of an aligned plan, which includes a plan B has got to be demoralizing to players. When we are winning, I'm patient, with fingers crossed. Not because I trust Bruce is going to get us up. But because complaining when we are winning is kinda pointless. Have you ever played for a coach that had no tactical sense, or didn't do the work to prepare for tactics? Didn't study the opposition? Didn't coach to capitalize on the opponents weaknesses and neutralize their strengths? A coach that just kinda said, "go out and play hard." But then had no "plan B" adjustments to make if things weren't working? It would be pretty demoralizing, especially when it happened time and again. Oh, well I'm on a specific tangent. Bruce should stay till the end of the season. I hope he gets us promoted, then I hope they name you our new manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: Would it have something to do with the costs involved to build these respective teams ? I’ve no idea but that’s a completely different point. That to my ears sounds like a complaint that the Manager hasn’t done a good enough job. One can debate whether the money spent should/ could/ must/ might make a difference. People can give examples of teams failing having spent a fortune, and of other teams doing fantastically well having spent nothing. The only point I’m making is that many ( @TRO being the most recent but by no means the only one) seem to think Cardiff are this, that, and the other, ( particularly they are “ better equipped physically, more aggressive, better drilled” or whatever....yet if you reverse just one result, us at their place, they’d be a grand total of 1 point clear of us. They are also full of character apparently, whereas we are not, yet they had the chance to seal 2nd and have 4 points from the last 9, same as the Villa “ bottlers” .... I just think the respective merits of each team is similar, yet not viewed as such by the very people you’d hope would always look for the good in their own side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, terrytini said: I’ve no idea but that’s a completely different point. That to my ears sounds like a complaint that the Manager hasn’t done a good enough job. One can debate whether the money spent should/ could/ must/ might make a difference. People can give examples of teams failing having spent a fortune, and of other teams doing fantastically well having spent nothing. The only point I’m making is that many ( @TRO being the most recent but by no means the only one) seem to think Cardiff are this, that, and the other, ( particularly they are “ better equipped physically, more aggressive, better drilled” or whatever....yet if you reverse just one result, us at their place, they’d be a grand total of 1 point clear of us. They are also full of character apparently, whereas we are not, yet they had the chance to seal 2nd and have 4 points from the last 9, same as the Villa “ bottlers” .... I just think the respective merits of each team is similar, yet not viewed as such by the very people you’d hope would always look for the good in their own side. It's a different point of view - if it goes against the point of view that you wish to make surely Terry? I would think many people not Villa fans alone would look to the difference in assembling the two squads ? I see where you are going - but not sure you can choose to ignore the financials of this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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