The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[StefanAVFC]

I'm not even a teacher anymore, but the blatant disrespect an incredibly hard-working group of people get when they arguably have one of the most important jobs, is staggering. You don't see anything like it, other than in the States.

Teachers feel they have to talk about their hours and the work put in because you have idiots constantly telling you 'that's an easy life then' when you tell them you're a teacher. If people shut up and stopped being words removed to teachers, then they wouldn't talk about it anywhere near as much. Plenty love the job but hate being disrespected for literally no reason.

[OutByEaster?]

43 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I thought it was just the French went on strike if they had to work more than a few hours a day ?

I know you're saying that in a tongue in cheek way and that you're not a casual racist perpetuating a stereotype copied from The Sun, but the tendency for French workers to be very militant in their actions in comparison to UK workers (and especially now that the current Government have cut the balls off the unions) has actually contributed to gaining UK workers some real protections and benefits over the years through our membership of the EU.

The French economy has taken the hit of the effect of industrial action and British workers have benefited from things like Working Time Regulations and the minimum wage as a result - taking instruction from a European court that was influenced by labour from across the continent gave us the ability to impose balanced labour laws without having to go through the painful bit ourselves.

The big fear is that we now have no external reference point for our own labour laws, no powers for workers to disagree with those labour laws and a government so avaricious and committed to the ethic of the free market that the balance is overwhelmingly in the favour of employers doing whatever they feel is right. Ultimately that balance between workers and employers is what drives the society we live in - if we allow ourselves to work people for 60 hours a week at £5 an hour, then we'll end up with an extremely unpleasant country.

I'd say that as a direct result of our leaving the EU, we might find in a decades time that our workforce are a little more like the French in their attitude to being screwed over.

 

 

[tonyh29]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I know you're saying that in a tongue in cheek way and that you're not a casual racist perpetuating a stereotype copied from The Sun, but the tendency for French workers to be very militant in their actions in comparison to UK workers (and especially now that the current Government have cut the balls off the unions) has actually contributed to gaining UK workers some real protections and benefits over the years through our membership of the EU.

The French economy has taken the hit of the effect of industrial action and British workers have benefited from things like Working Time Regulations and the minimum wage as a result - taking instruction from a European court that was influenced by labour from across the continent gave us the ability to impose balanced labour laws without having to go through the painful bit ourselves.

The big fear is that we now have no external reference point for our own labour laws, no powers for workers to disagree with those labour laws and a government so avaricious and committed to the ethic of the free market that the balance is overwhelmingly in the favour of employers doing whatever they feel is right. Ultimately that balance between workers and employers is what drives the society we live in - if we allow ourselves to work people for 60 hours a week at £5 an hour, then we'll end up with an extremely unpleasant country.

I'd say that as a direct result of our leaving the EU, we might find in a decades time that our workforce are a little more like the French in their attitude to being screwed over.

 

 

France isn't a race ... I'm only saying this as well you know , VT loves a pedant .

its a strange time we live in where every flippant comment on this web site has to be qualified with an explanation ... it never used to be that way ,i can only assume watching  too much Stewart Lee has made everyone on the left forget what humour is  

But seriously,   I thought the French strikes last year over the " El Khomri" law were in direct opposition to EU law because it was actually worsening the conditions many of those French workers already had ? 

[tonyh29]

27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm not even a teacher anymore, but the blatant disrespect an incredibly hard-working group of people get when they arguably have one of the most important jobs, is staggering. You don't see anything like it, other than in the States.

Teachers feel they have to talk about their hours and the work put in because you have idiots constantly telling you 'that's an easy life then' when you tell them you're a teacher. If people shut up and stopped being words removed to teachers, then they wouldn't talk about it anywhere near as much. Plenty love the job but hate being disrespected for literally no reason.

I have 4 or 5 close friends who are teaching assistants , true to type they do over post on Facebook about their working day and needless to say they do take a bit of a ribbing over it.

teachers and students have been the staple diet of running VT gags since before you even joined this web site and in the same way that some posters  like to end every Tory post with "they are evil" and Thatcher gets blamed for everything from the rise of Hitler to Ashley Westwood not being a very good footballer , the correct reaction is to take a leaf from Noel Gallaghers book and roll with it , rather than rant .

i enjoy your contributions to topics but I think sometimes you are taking things just a little bit to literal 

 

[OutByEaster?]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

its a strange time we live in where every flippant comment on this web site has to be qualified with an explanation ... it never used to be that way ,i can only assume watching  too much Stewart Lee has made everyone on the left forget what humour is  

I don't always believe the comments are flippant - and it's in flippancy where we sometimes see the clearest indication of opinion.

The website hasn't changed.

[StefanAVFC]

Blimey '4 or 5 teaching assistants. That's a sample and a half.

5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

teachers and students have been the staple diet of running VT gags since before you even joined this web site and in the same way that some posters  like to end every Tory post with "they are evil" and Thatcher gets blamed for everything from the rise of Hitler to Ashley Westwood not being a very good footballer , the correct reaction is to take a leaf from Noel Gallaghers book and roll with it , rather than rant .

i enjoy your contributions to topics but I think sometimes you are taking things just a little bit to literal 

 

With regards to this, sure. I get it. But it seems that every other post has one of these 'flippant comments' and IMO you're using these to wind people up then hide behind 'it was a joke!!!'

Also this:

Quote

I don't always believe the comments are flippant - and it's in flippancy where we sometimes see the clearest indication of opinion.

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't always believe the comments are flippant - and it's in flippancy where we sometimes see the clearest indication of opinion.

EDIT: I messed up the formatting

Edited January 8, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[darrenm]

Obvious troll is obvious

is something that could be used to describe when someone deliberately makes comments to wind people up then pretends 'it's all joke calm down you nobber'.

[tonyh29]

16 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't always believe the comments are flippant - and it's in flippancy where we sometimes see the clearest indication of opinion.

The website hasn't changed.

So your basically saying I'm a racist ( even though you meant xenophobic )

 

[chrisp65]

I have the complete spectrum of teachy types in my little social circle.

Teaching assistants, teachers, one deputy head and one head. All I can say is, they are as diverse a group as any. I work 'harder' than some of them, I wouldn't swap with some of them. Not even the deputy head of a junior school on £70k a year.

But they do have one thing in common. Whether we are discussing it at the football, in the local pub, at a quiz night, the charity car wash or bumping in to each other over the beach. they do like to emphasise how many hours they are doing. There are two teachers two doors up from my house. Really really nice people, proper teaching, maths in an average comp.. Last day of term and half term, every term and half term they go to work with the car loaded and they are away at 3:05pm for 1 week, 2 weeks, 5 weeks of the holidays.

They have mentioned they take a lot of work away with them on each and every of the 12 weeks a year they are away.

It is something of a running gag in real life, not just on VT.

How do you find out if someone has an ipad or does long hours as a teacher? Oh don't worry, they're gonna tell you anyway.

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I have the complete spectrum of teachy types in my little social circle.

Teaching assistants, teachers, one deputy head and one head. All I can say is, they are as diverse a group as any. I work 'harder' than some of them, I wouldn't swap with some of them. Not even the deputy head of a junior school on £70k a year.

But they do have one thing in common. Whether we are discussing it at the football, in the local pub, at a quiz night, the charity car wash or bumping in to each other over the beach. they do like to emphasise how many hours they are doing. There are two teachers two doors up from my house. Really really nice people, proper teaching, maths in an average comp.. Last day of term and half term, every term and half term they go to work with the car loaded and they are away at 3:05pm for 1 week, 2 weeks, 5 weeks of the holidays.

They have mentioned they take a lot of work away with them on each and every of the 12 weeks a year they are away.

It is something of a running gag in real life, not just on VT.

How do you find out if someone has an ipad or does long hours as a teacher? Oh don't worry, they're gonna tell you anyway.

I feel it has gotten to a silly point now where teachers feel like they have to state what they're doing because of the perceived public opinion. If people just stopped making silly comments, I reckon the 'moaning' (for want of a better word) would stop.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

So your basically saying I'm a racist ( even though you meant xenophobic )

 

To be fair, it was Neil that raised the subject of the english being very uniquely hard working and productive. 

Looking back now, I think I just missed the joke.

Thinking back to 2010 ish, our office gave people an option. There was less work, costs had to be cut so would we take redundancies, or a wage cut across the board?

It was decided to keep staff and cut wages. That doesn't help 'productivity' but I'm sure it helped the 'economy'. So it's all a bit notional.

 

[tonyh29]

39 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Blimey '4 or 5 teaching assistants. That's a sample and a half.

With regards to this, sure. I get it. But it seems that every other post has one of these 'flippant comments' and IMO you're using these to wind people up then hide behind 'it was a joke!!!'

Also this:

 

I'm not hiding behind anything , I'm as flippant in real life just ask the health and safety bloke that comes to our office every year and asks what our fire evacuation plan is and I answer throw all our health and safety documentation on the fire just in case it's not up to scratch and evacuate the building 

I'm sorry you're offended by every post I make but I doubt I'll ever change in fact I wouldn't want to change but then stubbornness is another trait of mine

 

P.S ... 4 or 5 is still a much larger sample size than 1

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by tonyh29

[chrisp65]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

I feel it has gotten to a silly point now where teachers feel like they have to state what they're doing because of the perceived public opinion. If people just stopped making silly comments, I reckon the 'moaning' (for want of a better word) would stop.

No. You are presuming it is always 'the others' raising the subject.

I can genuinely tell you it isn't.

I will bump in to a friend in town, we're both having a five minute skive down to Greggs. I will say 'hi', whereas she feels the need to tell me she hasn't stopped and they have a report to do so she'll be working late so she's getting a sandwich she can eat whilst she works.

Every. Time.

Lots of people work hard. My mate that is a dry liner works hard. He has never told me about how he sometimes works through the night. Which he does. He talks to me about football.

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

No. You are presuming it is always 'the others' raising the subject.

I can genuinely tell you it isn't.

I will bump in to a friend in town, we're both having a five minute skive down to Greggs. I will say 'hi', whereas she feels the need to tell me she hasn't stopped and they have a report to do so she'll be working late so she's getting a sandwich she can eat whilst she works.

Every. Time.

Lots of people work hard. My mate that is a dry liner works hard. He has never told me about how he sometimes works through the night. Which he does. He talks to me about football.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying it's all coming from one side. It obviously isn't. It's even worse in the industry itself, when you're made to feel shit if you're not working as hard as other teachers. But why has got to that point? That teachers feel like they have to tell everyone and their dog how hard they work?

Teaching used to be how it's perceived to be. Cushy hours, long holidays etc. As the workload has ramped up and ramped up, the perception of teachers hasn't changed.

I'm saying that when a group of people feel constantly attacked (not saying they are), they're going to push back. I think the industry needs a bit of sympathy right now, rather than to just be treated with a lack of respect. It's in a real mess. And it isn't the fault of those who might whinge a bit too much occasionally.

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-hate-crime-polish-eastern-european-too-scared-to-report-police-british-government-support-a7515196.html

Quote

Poles living in the UK 'scared to report hate crimes' after Brexit because of alleged lack of Government support

'They can’t turn around and say: ‘No, I don’t have to go home because your Government has said I am allowed to stay,’ says community leader, 'that puts you in a weaker position, doesn’t it?'

Theresa May's failure to clarify the position of EU nationals living in the UK after Brexit has left many too scared to report hate crimes, the head of the Polish Social and Cultural Association has claimed. 

Joanna Mludzinska is expected to tell a home affairs select committee inquiry on Tuesday that Poles living in Britain are too concerned about whether or not they will be allowed to remain in the country to inform police when they are verbally or physically attacked.

She slammed the Government’s failure to clarify the standing of the 2.9 million EU citizens currently living in the UK as “immoral”, saying it put Poles and other migrants in an impossible position.

“Very few people are reporting hate crimes at the moment," she told the Guardian. "People are very scared, because often this occurs in the workplace and they are scared they might lose their job. Or it’s from a neighbour and they don’t want to cause more problems.”

She added: “They can’t turn around and say: ‘No, I don’t have to go home because your Government has said I am allowed to stay.’ That puts you in a weaker position, doesn’t it? It makes people vulnerable. It makes them scared to stand up for themselves, to properly report things.”

Ms Mludzinska, who was born in London to Polish parents, said EU nationals were fed up with being used as "pawns" in Brexit negotiations, and would rather keep a low profile than contact authorities.

The problem has reportedly become so bad that the London-based East European Resource Centre (EERC) is launching a pilot scheme to encourage EU nationals to report hate crimes.

Stupid. Yet unsurprising.

[tonyh29]

37 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Obvious troll is obvious

is something that could be used to describe when someone deliberately makes comments to wind people up then pretends 'it's all joke calm down you nobber'.

The Hopkins of this world make comments to antagonise and wind people up and intentionally provoke a reaction .... they can't claim its all a joke ... when I post a comment about drinking a Guinness in  Kilburn making me Irish (and someone jumps down my throat over it ) I think it's perfectly clear that it's flippant ,

And i don't think I've ever called anyone a nobber 

[darrenm]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

The Hopkins of this world make comments to antagonise and wind people up and intentionally provoke a reaction .... they can't claim its all a joke ... when I post a comment about drinking a Guinness in  Kilburn making me Irish (and someone jumps down my throat over it ) I think it's perfectly clear that it's flippant ,

And i don't think I've ever called anyone a nobber 

I wasn't talking about you. But if the cap fits..

I am genuinely joking this time. Promise.

The drinking Guinness in Kilburn quip doesnt even make it into your top 100 on the trollishness charts anyway.

[HanoiVillan]

27 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

No. You are presuming it is always 'the others' raising the subject.

I can genuinely tell you it isn't.

I will bump in to a friend in town, we're both having a five minute skive down to Greggs. I will say 'hi', whereas she feels the need to tell me she hasn't stopped and they have a report to do so she'll be working late so she's getting a sandwich she can eat whilst she works.

Every. Time.

Lots of people work hard. My mate that is a dry liner works hard. He has never told me about how he sometimes works through the night. Which he does. He talks to me about football.

Do you believe:

a] that teachers are mentally or genetically different to other members of the adult population, or

b] that the recruitment process for teachers 'selects' for bone-idle whingers?

[tonyh29]

Interesting article  that people may or may not agree with regarding the rise in hate crimes 

 It’s not vainglorious to say that Britain is the most tolerant country in Europe, perhaps the world. In France, for instance, a national news-making hate incident is the attempted burning down of a mosque, which happened last month in Toulouse. In Britain, it is somebody shouting something nasty on a bus.

Full article is quite long  but worth a read