PB Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 This gets more ridiculous by the minute. Now you're saying that there was not going to be a straight swap deal (because DOL didn't want Joey - OK that part is right as I remember), so Villa were going to let him go on a free transfer? Do me a bloody favour! . Its quite simple really Jim. Villa agreed a deal with Real Betis when GT was amanger to allow JPA to join Real betis in exchange for Joey Gudjonsson. Angel had to all intents and purposes agreed terms. The deal was practically done. I think JPA still had to pass a medical, which was waiting for his operation to be done with. Why do you have such difficulty with understanding that Villa were writing off losses at the time? Alpay cost nearly £6m but we paid him to leave. Balaban cost more than £6m but we paid him to leave, hadji cost £4.5m but we paid him to leave. That's £16m worth of players that we actually paid money to to get them to leave the club. Why do you think we wouldn't have done the same with JPA had DOL not turned him around? Even though the deal with Betis collapsed in the end, don't you think they would have been back in again, seeing how we were letting these others go? Don't you think that we would have accepted, to get the £18,000 per week off the budget? If not, how do you explain our actions re Alpay, Balaban and Hadji? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmangiant Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 43% of people so far think Ang"hell" will be back to class form next season. Even though the only evidence that he is any good has come from 1 season where he scored more than 20 goals. ONE SEASON out of FOUR/FIVE. Compare that to "class" strikers who do that EVERY YEAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 43% of people so far think Ang"hell" will be back to class form next season. Even though the only evidence that he is any good has come from 1 season where he scored more than 20 goals. ONE SEASON out of FOUR/FIVE. Compare that to "class" strikers who do that EVERY YEAR! Actually it's 2 good seasons, he was having a blinder before GT took over from JG and was fans player of the year,a dn player if the year last year. Wasn't played much under GT, imn fact the only bad periods he has had, was his first season, when he was settling in, and this season when he has been injured, so you really are talking shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 actuallly its two poor seasons over his whole career... two poor seasons that have very legitimate reasons as to why he played poorly in those years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 PB, It's anything but simple. Where do you get your info from? The deal was never reported in the press as being agreed. On the contrary, the swap was considered outrageous. If the swap was agreed, why didn't it go through? After all, Betis would have been delighted to get rid of Joey. Then you're saying that after DOL had decided he didn't want Joey, we were going to let JPA go for free? Just who was going to let him go? Not DOL, he persuaded him to stay. You see, your story just doesn't add up. Villa were writing off losses at the time, sure, but Alpay had become a libaility for other reasons, and the nobody wanted Bosko. Hadji was kept on a long time after DOL arrived, for whatever reason. JPA on the other hand was a club hero, it would have been madness to release him on a free. Why do you have such difficulty understanding that? If the club policy had been to release Angel, it would have happened. But no, as you yourself admit, it was DOL's brief to persuade him to stay. This is an absurd argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 We dont have many class players, and yet we want rid of one that we do have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 JPA has had a poor season and there is no arguement there. However we must take into consideration: Injured during pre-season and missed first 6-8 weeks. Had to play with a striking partner who's workrate is non-existent and thus had to do all the chasing back himself. Injured during season and rushed back into team when not fully-fit. Has not been fully-fit at any stage of this season and has needed to be rested for the last four games IMO as he is not fit, and his confidence is shot to pieces. Take all of the above out of the equation and I would bet we would have the player we had last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancsVillan Posted May 3, 2005 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2005 43% of people so far think Ang"hell" will be back to class form next season. Even though the only evidence that he is any good has come from 1 season where he scored more than 20 goals. ONE SEASON out of FOUR/FIVE. Compare that to "class" strikers who do that EVERY YEAR! cannot be bothered looking myself but Joe go on tell us exactly which class strikers are getting 20 goals EVERY season Now discount those that play in the Arse and Man Utd teams leaving hmm maybe Hasselbaink, how many has he got this season Shearer - take away the pens and free-kicks and ............ no strikers need chances and we simply don't create enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ligs Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 hmm maybe Hasselbaink, how many has he got this season Shearer - take away the pens and free-kicks and ............ Why take away pens? Are you gonna deduct Angel's penalties from his total last season? no strikers need chances and we simply don't create enough Assume that should be "all" strikers? :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancsVillan Posted May 3, 2005 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2005 yeah lets take both of JPA's pens off his total last season and Shearer's 7 Pens and 4 free kicks! and yes it should be all strikers need chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Lancs is right and, even some of the top clubs strikers are not doing that well. Drogba (24m pounds worth of player in the best team in England) has score a whopping 4 more goals than JPA in the League this year (granted Angel has played 7 more games). That is hardly setting the world on fire is it. Reyes who perhaps isn't an out and out striker but plays upfront for Arsenal has only score 8 and Van Persie only has 4 (Van Persie in less games). These are top quality forwards at top quality clubs who are not scoring at anywhere near the rate they should be. It happens. JPA will be back to his best and firing next year I am confident of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ligs Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Why shouldn't pens and free kicks count? If he'd scored the 2 at Fulham, the 2 at Newcastle and 1 at Spurs would you be saying the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancsVillan Posted May 3, 2005 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2005 ligs not saying they don't count but when you compare strikers I feel you need to look at goals from open play, it is those that striker should be getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Yakubu? Is there any more overrated player in the Premier League? Yes - Malbranque!! Keane? He has a smaller goal return (and, I'll wager, similar "Stats") Im not saying we should replace Angel, rather I would like to see us break the bank and purchase a decent striker to play alongside him. However, if it absolutely came down to it then I think Yakubu or Keane would be decent replacements Yakubu - played in a piss poor team but 28 league goals in 66 league games -Argue that this is overrated!? :? Keane - 39 league goals in 98 games - this isnt a smaller goal return in the last three seasons. Angel - 23 league goals in 81 games. (Stats PL website for last three seasons) Or since Angel has been at the club Keane - 51 league goals in 141 league games (1 in 2.76) Angel - 36 league goals in 107 games! (About 1 in 2.97) Interpret that as you will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If we had Barry as penalty taker every match this season, would you be saying the same? For instance if a striker get's 20 league goals and 10 of them on penaltie's. JPA get's 10 goals in the league and takes no penaltie's. Would JPA be less quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ligs Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If you were interested in two strikers of similar quality at the same price, one with 10 goals and one with 20 including 10 pens, you'd take the one with 20 goals. It's another string to the players bow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 OK, we can probably find statistics to "prove" JPA is as good/better or not as effective as (insert your favorite striker). The point is we absolutely must have someone else to play instead of JPA (permanent repacement or until he's back on song - doesn't much matter which). A lot of people have been unhappy with JPA this season. I'm one of them and I don't happen to think he's as talented as everybody makes out, but that's unimportant - I know he can do a job and I'll be happy to cheer him on when he finds his shooting boots again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If you are talking about a strikers duty... then its open goals (nicked from Lancs ) you should be looking at. Cant say it matters if JPA doesnt take penalties or free kicks, that hasnt got shit to say about his quality as a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 OK, we can probably find statistics to "prove" JPA is as good/better or not as effective as (insert your favorite striker). The point is we absolutely must have someone else to play instead of JPA (permanent repacement or until he's back on song - doesn't much matter which). A lot of people have been unhappy with JPA this season. I'm one of them and I don't happen to think he's as talented as everybody makes out, but that's unimportant - I know he can do a job and I'll be happy to cheer him on when he finds his shooting boots again. So you dont think the lack of service from the midfield has had something to say about our striker's poor goal record?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ligs Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If you are talking about a strikers duty... then its open goals (nicked from Lancs ) you should be looking at. Cant say it matters if JPA doesnt take penalties or free kicks, that hasnt got shit to say about his quality as a striker. Yes, but at the end of the day people will remember Shearer (for example) as a brilliant goalscorer. They wont say "yes, but he did score plenty of penalties and free kicks." The point is if he'd scored those 5 penalties this season he'd have 13? goals, and people wouldn't be quite as critical, because it's goals that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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