The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[bickster]

3 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Sounds like Labour in the 70’s bar the EU and less strikes. As then it is time for a change of Government, let’s hope the next PM is as strong as the one whom came to power then and dug us out of the hole described. 

You realise the Three Day Week and Electricity rationing was under Edward Heath as Prime Minister in 1973-74?

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

On 27/08/2022 at 11:43, Mandy Lifeboats said:

We are in a proxy war with Russia

Inflation is double figures

Agree with all of the post apart from these 2.  No matter who was in power for however long these would exist in there current form.  The alternative is not being in the war but still have the inflation as this is dictated by world markets.  Not preventable or avoidable in my opinion.  Historically the way to tackle inflation of this size would be to push interest rates to a untenable level but becasue its global it would not work as expected so all countries are on a defensive footing financially.  The UK is there or thereabouts at the moment with almost everyone else for inflation in the EU and wider,  Turkey or Argentina is inflation where the Governments can be blamed directly.

[markavfc40]

16 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

The UK is there or thereabouts at the moment with almost everyone else for inflation in the EU and wider,  

Inflation is 6.1% in France, 7.5% Germany, 8.4% Italy, 8.5% USA. It is 10.1% in UK. These are big differences, certainly against France and Germany, which are similar size economies to us.

Edited August 28, 2022 by markavfc40

[Mandy Lifeboats]

5 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Agree with all of the post apart from these 2.  No matter who was in power for however long these would exist in there current form.  The alternative is not being in the war but still have the inflation as this is dictated by world markets.  Not preventable or avoidable in my opinion.  Historically the way to tackle inflation of this size would be to push interest rates to a untenable level but becasue its global it would not work as expected so all countries are on a defensive footing financially.  The UK is there or thereabouts at the moment with almost everyone else for inflation in the EU and wider,  Turkey or Argentina is inflation where the Governments can be blamed directly.

I agree to a limited degree.  But Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014.  Since then Bozo has met with a Russian spy, Tories accepted Russian donations and the UK welcomed “dirty” Russian money into the UK.  We also spent billions on 2 massive aircraft carriers when our biggest threat is well within range of hundreds of NATO airstrips. 

To our credit we didn’t become dependent upon Russian gas and oil.  But that hasn’t helped us now.  We are dependent upon gas and oil from the world market. 
 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

We also spent billions on 2 massive aircraft carriers when our biggest threat is well within range of hundreds of NATO airstrips. 

The carrier contract was under Labour before the tories got in. The tories wanted to cancel it, but couldn’t (because of details that are way off topic). When they found they couldn’t cancel it and save money they cancelled Nimrod instead…and then later had to buy American MPAs for 4 billion quid.

[picicata]

16 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Sounds like Labour in the 70’s bar the EU and less strikes. As then it is time for a change of Government, let’s hope the next PM is as strong as the one whom came to power then and dug us out of the hole described. 

Dug us out of one hole and stuck us in another

[Mandy Lifeboats]

30 minutes ago, blandy said:

The carrier contract was under Labour before the tories got in. The tories wanted to cancel it, but couldn’t (because of details that are way off topic). When they found they couldn’t cancel it and save money they cancelled Nimrod instead…and then later had to buy American MPAs for 4 billion quid.

Forgive me if I am wrong (Senility is only around the corner) but I thought the first carrier was ordered by Labour.  At the time it seemed logical because the threats were not in Europe.  I am pretty sure there was an option of second carrier which the Conservative took up. I think it was after Russia invaded Crimea.  But would be delighted for someone to prove my senility with some facts and dates? 
 

PS- Has anyone seen my glasses?  

[bickster]

2 hours ago, picicata said:

Dug us out of one hole and stuck us in another

What on earth does this mean?

[blandy]

20 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Forgive me if I am wrong (Senility is only around the corner) but I thought the first carrier was ordered by Labour.  At the time it seemed logical because the threats were not in Europe.  I am pretty sure there was an option of second carrier which the Conservative took up. I think it was after Russia invaded Crimea.  But would be delighted for someone to prove my senility with some facts and dates? 
 

PS- Has anyone seen my glasses?  

I’m going from memory here, too but IIRC the contract for the work was placed under Labour. At the time there was government concern over several things, Ark Royal going out of service, UK shipyards not having enough work or orders to stay open and were going to be closed, with the consequential loss of sovereign defence manufacturing capability….and so on. The contract basically was for BAE to keep the yard open and the government would guarantee x amount of work. That work could take the form of Carriers, or a mix of other types of vessel to the same cost/amount of work over n years. Labour chose 2 carriers and when the tories got in, in 2010 they decided to cancel the contract, but because of the guaranteed work clause, they couldn’t. They considered that Labour and BAE had stitched them up and essentially cancelled Nimrod out of spite as a result. They not only cancelled the contract, but also insisted that all the aircraft that had been turned into MRA4s, or were due to be, were destroyed and all technical and other records and documentation was also destroyed.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

26 minutes ago, blandy said:

I’m going from memory here, too but IIRC the contract for the work was placed under Labour. At the time there was government concern over several things, Ark Royal going out of service, UK shipyards not having enough work or orders to stay open and we’re going to be closed, with the consequential loss of sovereign defence manufacturing capability….and so on. The contract basically was for BAE to keep the yard open and the government would guarantee x amount of work. That work could take the form of Carriers, or a mix of other types of vessel to the same cost/amount of work over n years. Labour chose 2 carriers and when the tories got in, in 2010 they decided to cancel the contract, but because of the guaranteed work clause, they couldn’t. They considered that Labour and BAE had stitched them up and essentially cancelled Nimrod out of spite as a result. They not only cancelled the contract, but also insisted that all the aircraft that had been turned into MR4s, or were due to be, were destroyed and all technical and other records and documentation was also destroyed.

But what about my glasses? 

[blandy]

12 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

But what about my glasses? 

You’re wearing them!

[Mandy Lifeboats]

19 minutes ago, blandy said:

You’re wearing them!

So I am.  Thank you.  

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

6 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Inflation is 6.1% in France, 7.5% Germany, 8.4% Italy, 8.5% USA. It is 10.1% in UK. These are big differences, certainly against France and Germany, which are similar size economies to us.

What could the UK have done the same as these countries to improve from 10 to 6 ?

What didn't the Tories do  that was so easy for France and Germany for example.  I don't know how they did it?

 

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

What could the UK have done the same as these countries to improve from 10 to 6 ?

What didn't the Tories do  that was so easy for France and Germany for example.  I don't know how they did it?

 

Don't know about Germany but French Govt wholly owning the national energy supplier EDF has certainly had a part to play in France (and if someone could punch Corbyn and whichever Union Leaders along with Uncle Joe McLuskey stated this wasn't possible in the EU that'd be grand)

[Mandy Lifeboats]

38 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

What could the UK have done the same as these countries to improve from 10 to 6 ?

What didn't the Tories do  that was so easy for France and Germany for example.  I don't know how they did it?

 

I think the French Electricity Cap increasd by 4% until 2023. Our cap increased about 80%.  

[blandy]

33 minutes ago, bickster said:

French Govt wholly owning the national energy supplier EDF has certainly had a part to play

They don’t ( yet ), but they own most of it. Will soon be all of it, but your point stands.

[blandy]

49 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

What didn't the Tories do  that was so easy for France and Germany for example.

Stay in the EU

[Xela]

10 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

I think the French Electricity Cap increasd by 4% until 2023. Our cap increased about 80%.  

EDF is state owned and the French Government has put a limit on the increases in energy prices.

EDF are making huge losses, into the billions, as a result (along with other factors like nuclear reactor issues)

[OutByEaster?]

EDF made 860 million euros selling energy to the UK last year.

At least our government are helping  them cover some of their losses and taking away some of the burden to French taxpayers.

 

 

 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

 

EDF are making huge losses, into the billions, as a result (along with other factors like nuclear reactor issues)

But does this matter?  

The EU might cut taxes or hand out fuel payments.  Which will cost billions. 

France will subsidise EDF which benefits all.  There's no red tape or extra administrative costs. 

The UK will help some of the population but not all.  There will be extra administration costs.