Mic09 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: in 2010 at the worst financial point of the last Labour administration, debt was £1 Trillion, 59.5% of GDP Nine years of tory austerity and tory financial expertise later, with everything cut, less police, less teaching assistants and the NHS holding on by its fingertips, national debt is now £1.8 Trillion and 85% of GDP. But there are more millionaires and billionaires now, so there is always an upside. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? No, I haven't been cheated. That is because I expected nothing less. Tories are not a good party when it comes to economics (and not much else for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 One might argue about the knock on effects (market implications, impact on BT directly, &c.) of free broadband and the method by which to look at carrying it out but in terms of government spending on infrastructure to benefit everyone then it seems to me like a better area to target than high speed trains. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: That is because I expected nothing less. Tories are not a good party when it comes to economics (and not much else for that matter). Yet they win nearly every time as the self-proclaimed party of business Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: No, I haven't been cheated. I have a river spanning business opportunity you may be interested in... 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: It's no guarantee of work. How does an employee who works 4 hours one week, and 40 the next counting as an FTE? They tell the story of record high unemployment whilst setting the criteria of what 'employed' actually means It's not guarantee of work, I agree. But it's a system that works for many people who look to upskill or flexibility. Think of chefs, bar staff, event staff, students etc. You cannot employ a bar staff member on 40h a week, it just does not work. Funnily enough, when things were busy I earned more and had more hours than people on a contract while on zero hours. It worked for me at the time and I don't know where I'd be if I didn't get that chance. Also, what is a guarantee of work? People get made redundant all the time, companies close down, there are cuts, some services get made redundant. You work in IT, right? What if you don't upskill and your job becomes automated? Is your job 'safe'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I have a river spanning business opportunity you may be interested in... You do know that bridges are not just for crossing bodies of water dont you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Yet they win nearly every time as the self-proclaimed party of business Why is that? "Self-proclaimed". And championed so in the bias media. I own a business and I tell you, they are not my party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, snowychap said: One might argue about the knock on effects (market implications, impact on BT directly, &c.) of free broadband and the method by which to look at carrying it out but in terms of government spending on infrastructure to benefit everyone then it seems to me like a better area to target than high speed trains. Did you catch McDonnell’s interview on Radio 4 earlier? It’s not just Open Reach he’s after but businesses like Virgin, Talk Talk and all of the others that invested private money in laying the existing fibre network. No guarantees that they receive market value for their investment, but if they can’t agree a price then they’re vulnerable to nationalization, too. Labour is going after property rights, the foundation of liberal democracy. Not to worry though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: Also, what is a guarantee of work? People get made redundant all the time, companies close down, there are cuts, some services get made redundant. You work in IT, right? What if you don't upskill and your job becomes automated? Is your job 'safe'? I'm a people manager and SME of an application so I'm fine. Robots can't do either of those things. Just now, Mic09 said: It's not guarantee of work, I agree. But it's a system that works for many people who look to upskill or flexibility. Think of chefs, bar staff, event staff, students etc. You cannot employ a bar staff member on 40h a week, it just does not work. Funnily enough, when things were busy I earned more and had more hours than people on a contract while on zero hours. It worked for me at the time and I don't know where I'd be if I didn't get that chance. It depends. If you gave a shit about your workers, you'd give the contracts and full benefits regardless of the necessary hours. For example,. venue hires a barman for a place that does gigs. One week they have 5 gigs, one week they have 2. Still hire him and give him the full contract so he has job security and full benefits. Sadly, it's all about $$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 On 13/11/2019 at 22:30, Risso said: Amusing and unintended typo aside, any concrete examples you'd like to furnish us with? With KPMG fingered as launderers of Russian cash and the Tories beneficiaries of Russian cash? It's likely to be a while before the line drawn under this saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Awol said: Did you catch McDonnell’s interview on Radio 4 earlier? No. I never listen to Radio 4. 9 minutes ago, Awol said: It’s not just Open Reach he’s after but businesses like Virgin, Talk Talk and all of the others that invested private money in laying the existing fibre network. No guarantees that they receive market value for their investment, but if they can’t agree a price then they’re vulnerable to nationalization, too. Labour is going after property rights, the foundation of liberal democracy. Not to worry though... I'd have to listen to what he said to see if that were an accurate rather than a skewed summary of what he said. And even then, my point above still stands especially the following bit: 'One might argue about ... the method by which to look at carrying it out.' Edited November 15, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Awol said: Labour is going after property rights, the foundation of liberal democracy. Not to worry though... I'm more worried about comms behing handed to the Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, snowychap said: No. I never listen to Radio 4. I'd have to listen to what he said to see if that were an accurate rather than a skewed summary of what he said. And even then, my point above still stands especially the following bit: 'One might argue about ... the method by which to look at carrying it out.' Historically, the problem with socialism (not social democracy) is always ‘the methods used to carry it out.’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I'm a people manager and SME of an application so I'm fine. Robots can't do either of those things. It depends. If you gave a shit about your workers, you'd give the contracts and full benefits regardless of the necessary hours. For example,. venue hires a barman for a place that does gigs. One week they have 5 gigs, one week they have 2. Still hire him and give him the full contract so he has job security and full benefits. Sadly, it's all about $$$$ I hope you are right, but as you know when going gets tough it's often people managers that get the hit. I'm no fan of PIS either so I cincerily hope you won't face tough times in Poland As for the second point, it is all about the $$$$, 100%. Having managed a bar however, (and a successfull one that did 30k a week in turnover) we would have to shut down should we offer our zero hour staff those benefits. It is just not feasible. In part, I blame high cost of produce we used (again, coming back to inflation) and taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Xann said: I'm more worried about comms behing handed to the Chinese. If Labour win then you won’t have to worry, it’ll just be a different flavour of authoritarian socialists controlling the Internet. No property rights = no rule of law = rule by the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: I hope you are right, but as you know when going gets tough it's often people managers that get the hit. I'm no fan of PIS either so I cincerily hope you won't face tough times in Poland If PiS start messing with the tech giants that are creating thousands of jobs in every major city (I live in Lodz and we have probably 10000 in the industry here and moving to Katowice next month and about the same number of jobs) they will just up and leave. My field (ServiceNOW) is fairly global so whatever happens here I should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Awol said: If Labour win then you won’t have to worry, it’ll just be a different flavour of authoritarian socialists controlling the Internet. No property rights = no rule of law = rule by the party. I don't get to vote for the incumbents in Beijing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Historically, the problem with socialism (not social democracy) is always ‘the methods used to carry it out.’ Yawn. Well done. It seems the point of responding to my comment was merely so you could shoehorn in a cheap, trite slogan. It's a shame that it has and had little to do with what I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Xann said: I don't get to vote for the incumbents in Beijing. Equating 5G (which Huawei should be nowhere near) with ending property rights & destroying the economy in short order aren’t really on the same scale of effwittery. When McDonnell preached that he wanted to overthrow capitalism it appears he wasn’t kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, snowychap said: Yawn. Well done. It seems the point of responding to my comment was merely so you could shoehorn in a cheap, trite slogan. It's a shame that it has and had little to do with what I was saying. You’ve obviously woken in a great mood, have a lovely day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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