The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[HanoiVillan]

29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Labour have just lost the Rhondda council to Plaid Cymru.

A predominantly english speaking Welsh Valley. That is exactly where you would be expecting Labour to be 'killing it'. But their special blend of local and national incompetence has seen them lose the Rhondda.

Too busy worrying about losing votes to Farage to notice how far they've drifted from having any actual belief or drive.

At what point will there be enough clues?

 

16 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

But but yougov.

You both misunderstand me. There's no shortage of evidence that Labour are in trouble, if you're looking for it; their national poll ratings have been very low, especially in the last 2-3 weeks, even with pollsters that have traditionally been more positive about their poll numbers; Jeremy Corbyn's personal popularity numbers are horrific (he got IpsosMORI's worst-ever satisfaction rating for an LOTO on record just the other day); you could even consider the fact that since the GE, over 459 council elections they haven't gained any on net (since this number just might be of some use in aggregate). 

What you can't do is use one council byelection; it is not evidence of anything in itself.

(In any case, even if it were predictive in some way, this one particular council byelection would arguably be marginally positive for Labour - an improved Lib Dem performance in the South-West helps Labour on aggregate under FPTP since there are more LD-Con marginals than Lab-LD marginals (up to a point, anyway; it ceases to be true when the LD's hit, like, 30 points or something)). 

Edited July 6, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[bickster]

53 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

Labour have just lost the Rhondda council to Plaid Cymru.

A predominantly english speaking Welsh Valley. That is exactly where you would be expecting Labour to be 'killing it'. But their special blend of local and national incompetence has seen them lose the Rhondda.

Too busy worrying about losing votes to Farage to notice how far they've drifted from having any actual belief or drive.

At what point will there be enough clues?

 

 

To lose in the shadow of the hill were the first ever red flag of socialism was raised in the world (Hirwaun Common) is shameful

Plaid used to be an absolute non-entity in the Valleys. A lot of my family were in the Labour Party except my Grandfather who was a member of the Communist Party. They just laughed at Plaid even bothering to stand, they were viewed as the village idiots. And my family were predominantly Welsh Speaking

For Labour to lose to Plaid in the Valleys is an absolutely monumental shift

They've already lost Merthyr council to an Independent group and it has to be noted they lost in places like Dowlais and Gurnos, ffs Gurnos where Councillor Jarret (A mates dad) ran the Labour Party from his council house, Mayor of Methyr he may have been for many years but he still lived on the Gurnos and ran the party from his living room. Thats Merthyr the seat of Kier Hardy.

These are the very definition of Labour Heartlands

[blandy]

58 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

There's no shortage of evidence that Labour are in trouble, if you're looking for it; their national poll ratings have been very low, especially in the last 2-3 weeks, even with pollsters that have traditionally been more positive about their poll numbers; Jeremy Corbyn's personal popularity numbers are horrific

Exactly. And the two are completely connected. It’s not YouGov, or Tory press barons, or Blairites, or centrist Dads, or whoever the angry tramps want to scapegoat next who are responsible for the absolute **** state of it. It’s Corbyn, his numpty acolytes like Len and Seamus and that pinhead Williamson. It’s a crying shame that with the most monumentally appalling Tory government, making a total clusterpork of everything that the official opposition is polling even lower in the polls than the words removed in charge and the pure bell ends like Farage.

if there was a remotely competent, capable, intelligent leader of Labour, not only would they be romping the polls, they’d probably already be in government. Instead we stagger on run (though that’s over stating the case) by a ghost and a bunch of entitled public school arses arguing over who can look the most appealing to a bunch of throbby gammons and Home Counties racist pearl clutchers, so they can have a go at making more of a mess of it than trotters Cameron and May the merciless.

Jesus **** wept.

[bickster]

Labour hve been campaigning against NDAs

This may explain why... or not you massive f***ing hypocrites

The Labour Party using Carter Ruck the defenders of Scientology and numerous other Libel actions designed to stop people telling the truth and issuiing their own staff with NDAs whilst saying they are against them. What utter bellends

[peterms]

Psephologist, Blairite, centrist dad, keen studier of yougov and other polls, also see "Fobroared" in many Guardian btl comments.  Did some useful stuff on the rise of the new fascists.  But a bit of a centrist dad. 

[snowychap]

 

[magnkarl]

19 hours ago, bickster said:

Labour hve been campaigning against NDAs

This may explain why... or not you massive f***ing hypocrites

The Labour Party using Carter Ruck the defenders of Scientology and numerous other Libel actions designed to stop people telling the truth and issuiing their own staff with NDAs whilst saying they are against them. What utter bellends

I didn't honestly know they could fall this low. Is this the "newer, kinder politics" that we were promised from Corbyn?

It's a desperate attempt to hold onto power when you realised that you've made so many mistakes that everyone including their cat and dog knows that you've been a shameful bigot on the side. Where's the actual (what's left) Labour party in this? They're so blinded by Messiah Corbyn that they can't see what's happening.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by magnkarl

[bickster]

The Lords are a leaping... 3 resigned the whip so far today (see thread) but Lords Triesman, Darzi and Turnberg have resigned the whip over Labour's antisemitism.

 

[Chindie]

On 07/07/2019 at 14:01, bickster said:

Labour hve been campaigning against NDAs

This may explain why... or not you massive f***ing hypocrites

The Labour Party using Carter Ruck the defenders of Scientology and numerous other Libel actions designed to stop people telling the truth and issuiing their own staff with NDAs whilst saying they are against them. What utter bellends

Unless I'm missing something, that letter seems to suggest is about something rather different than the tweeter wants to suggest. It actually even explicitly says the 'anti-Semitism issue' is outside the scope of any confidentiality agreement.

And interesting there's no date on it.

Hmm.

[Chindie]

Remember when the anti-Semitism fiasco was all about the IHRA definition? Those were good old days.

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Remember when the anti-Semitism fiasco was all about the IHRA definition? Those were good old days.

Yep, and that was actually something that was debatable. Gagging people with NDA's, pushing people out of their party due to religion and letting known bigots back into the party isn't really debatable, it's deplorable.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Unless I'm missing something, that letter seems to suggest is about something rather different than the tweeter wants to suggest. It actually even explicitly says the 'anti-Semitism issue' is outside the scope of any confidentiality agreement.

And interesting there's no date on it.

Hmm.

Seriously? the Tweet is about NDAs, Labour's use thereof and their public campaigning against such agreements. The antisemitism thing is just in the background (like it always is with Labour)

[magnkarl]

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much are Labour "#¤"#¤ themselves today ahead of this Panorama episode tonight on their antisemitism handling?

[Chindie]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Seriously? the Tweet is about NDAs, Labour's use thereof and their public campaigning against such agreements. The antisemitism thing is just in the background (like it always is with Labour)

No it isn't. It's structured specifically to link the anti-Semitism farce to an unrelated matter. 'Ahead of bombshell Panorama doc Labour is cracking down on whistleblowers' is expressly drafted to draw a reader to believe Labour is gagging concerns about anti-Semitism. When the actual letter says that isn't the case.

It's extremely cynical.

There's no connection at all to what Labour and NDA policy. That's brought by the reader, not the writer of the tweet (or the letter itself).

The letter itself is basically laying out concerns about someone formerly in a sensitive position leaking information contrary to confidentiality. I'd get a similar letter of I spouted details of confidential info from a former job to the press, unless I had bloody good reason. It's a nonsense 

[Chindie]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much are Labour "#¤"#¤ themselves today ahead of this Panorama episode tonight on their antisemitism handling?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how excited are you to watch it?

I dunno about you but I've got the hand lotion and tissues ready ahead of time.

[bobzy]

10 minutes ago, Chindie said:

No it isn't. It's structured specifically to link the anti-Semitism farce to an unrelated matter. 'Ahead of bombshell Panorama doc Labour is cracking down on whistleblowers' is expressly drafted to draw a reader to believe Labour is gagging concerns about anti-Semitism. When the actual letter says that isn't the case.

It's extremely cynical.

There's no connection at all to what Labour and NDA policy. That's brought by the reader, not the writer of the tweet (or the letter itself).

The letter itself is basically laying out concerns about someone formerly in a sensitive position leaking information contrary to confidentiality. I'd get a similar letter of I spouted details of confidential info from a former job to the press, unless I had bloody good reason. It's a nonsense 

Yeah, I don't really see the big issue with that letter and the tweet certainly misleads.

[peterms]

2 hours ago, Chindie said:

The letter itself is basically laying out concerns about someone formerly in a sensitive position leaking information contrary to confidentiality. I'd get a similar letter of I spouted details of confidential info from a former job to the press, unless I had bloody good reason. It's a nonsense 

Yes.  The tweeter also claims it's a crackdown on whistleblowers, when the letter makes clear it is about the ex-employee disclosing personal information about other staff for political ends; this is not whistleblowing, and if an employer failed to act to protect other staff, they would be criticised for that, and rightly.

It's just another smear.

[bickster]

Why are you deliberately missing the point?  it doesn't matter what the bloody tweet says or what the party is trying to protect. It doesn't matter whether there's a date on the letter or not as the Deputy Leader of the Party has as good as said it's genuine.

(Labour say NDAs are bad) + (Labour use NDAs) = Hypocrisy

Which was my point the entire time, my point was never about anti-semitism, never about Panorama, it was about their chuffing hypocrisy in using NDAs

 

[peterms]

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

Why are you deliberately missing the point?  it doesn't matter what the bloody tweet says or what the party is trying to protect. It doesn't matter whether there's a date on the letter or not as the Deputy Leader of the Party has as good as said it's genuine.

(Labour say NDAs are bad) + (Labour use NDAs) = Hypocrisy

Which was my point the entire time, my point was never about anti-semitism, never about Panorama, it was about their chuffing hypocrisy in using NDAs

 

Labour have used NDAs for departing staff for many years.

I thought their criticism was about the misuse of NDAs eg to cover up payoffs in cases of harassment and the like, not to protect information which is regarded as confidential, as a lot of HR info is, and for many firms, commercially sensitive information?

If they have said that there is no place for NDAs and they should never be used, while continuing to use them, your point about hypocrisy would be correct.  Have they said that?

[bickster]

Quote

Dozens of former Labour Party staff have been forced to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that ban them from speaking out about sexist and racist behaviour by members — despite Jeremy Corbyn pledging to ban such contractual clauses.

Officials who have been paid off since Corbyn’s allies seized control of party headquarters have signed clauses that stop them going public on the scale and severity of sexual harassment, bullying and anti-semitism cases against members. The party made extensive use of non-disclosure agreements despite Labour’s outrage at such contracts being used to conceal the identity of a leading businessman accused of sexual harassment and racism. He was named in the House of Lords as Sir Philip Green, the billionaire boss of Topshop. He has denied the claims.

Sunday Times (rest paywalled sorry)

From October 2018

Quote

Announcing plans for a #MeToo workplace revolution, Jeremy Corbyn will commit the next Labour government to:

Legislating to prevent making any contractual clauses (NDAs) which stop disclosure of future discrimination, harassment or victimisation
Doubling the timeframe within which employment tribunals can be taken
Requiring employers to publish their sexual harassment policy and the steps being taken to implement it on their external website.

The Horses Mouth