nepal_villan Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Excellent stuff. Article captures exactly my thoughts on the new badge. Chelsea, Arsenal, Juventus all recently changed their crests, so I dont buy the "Who cares about the badge, it's winning that matters" or the "If we win, no one will care how the badge looks" arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 It's also a bit of a slap in the face to suggest the board messed up in seeking fan consultation and sets a precedent. The idea was well intentioned and must be applauded, the final execution poor. 20 20 hindsight hey? I loved the idea of the fan consaultation, it's typical of our brilliant new board. But honestly, looking at what we got (and this badge has grown on me, I would say i'm happy with it now), a single designer working by himself would have likely pleased a lot more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 no one cared today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLIVNOTSA Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The most important question nobody has asked and certainly nobody has answered is this: if you don't like it and you want it changed what are you gonna do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeMoore Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 If the badge was changed to please those that are unhappy and then this upset a new set of fans would the same people be as supportive and vocal in trying to get it changed again? Also no one has been able to tell me what problems this badge is going to cause for us, the new badge on the scarfs certainly didn't ruin the mood or the performance today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Several things to answer; ‘no one cared today’; well of course they didn’t, it would churlish and silly to think that this is more important than three points. But thats not to say its not important. If identities/logos/crests weren’t you would wonder why that so many big brands care so much about them. Its a reflection of the company, and this crest would certainly not reflect as good as Villa could be. To the next; what are we going to do? Nothing, bar complain in these forums (that the club will read and hope take note). I don’t actually believe the club will or would change it. Why? Because if they could see the problems they wouldn’t have done it in the beginning (in my opinion). To LMs points. I don’t think its going to change. To its importance; We live in a modern visual culture, where everyone makes judgements on what they see. I fear that something that is as poor reflects badly on us. Maybe its the 0.01% of how the club performs; maybe its the way that somebody in some far away place picks a club or a sponsor invests in the club. Its not like they say ‘I will do it based upon the crest’, but its a subliminal influence on them. We have to be the best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Paul, did you see the sky plus coverage. they had the new badge on in 3D format spinning around and it looked great maybe the badge will look better in context and not just as a standalone item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ... I fear that something that is as poor reflects badly on us. ... In principle, that's a fine statement... But I don't think many people do believe it's "poor", Paul. Sorry. You may feel the design is not up to your standards, but that is not what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spizzenergi Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I agee with our top designer Paul and I think the badge is unfinished. I had a go and changed the background and made the star golden to see what I mean its on my Villa myspace http://www.myspace.com/spizzenergiastonvilla see what a little more thought could have produced. The Sun Never Sets On Aston Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgorton Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 great article,agreed with you. I think it would be improved by having a claret lion, a silver star and the motto put in a scroll underneath. It seems I may need a new tattoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Several things to answer; ‘no one cared today’; well of course they didn’t, it would churlish and silly to think that this is more important than three points. But thats not to say its not important. If identities/logos/crests weren’t you would wonder why that so many big brands care so much about them. Its a reflection of the company, and this crest would certainly not reflect as good as Villa could be. To the next; what are we going to do? Nothing, bar complain in these forums (that the club will read and hope take note). I don’t actually believe the club will or would change it. Why? Because if they could see the problems they wouldn’t have done it in the beginning (in my opinion). To LMs points. I don’t think its going to change. To its importance; We live in a modern visual culture, where everyone makes judgements on what they see. I fear that something that is as poor reflects badly on us. Maybe its the 0.01% of how the club performs; maybe its the way that somebody in some far away place picks a club or a sponsor invests in the club. Its not like they say ‘I will do it based upon the crest’, but its a subliminal influence on them. We have to be the best we can. Good points. (and good article). Aesthetics are important. That's why people made a fuss about the Trinty Road stand. This is more than just something that should look good. It's meant to be something that people can identify with - that's its main purpose. But how it looks should also give a strong message about how the club sees itself. For example, the message seems to be about respecting tradition but looking forward. I don't agree with basing the design of crest on consulting people about their choice. Mostly, they have no expertise, their opinions will be based on little thought and practical experience, they may change their mind completely when shown something better. But I do agree with consulting them about what they want the crest to do, what they think it should convey. Having got these ideas clear, give the job to a pro and let them produce some options. No, it's not the end of the world. Yes, it could have been better. Does it matter? Well, yes, it would be good to do as well as possible in these things. This wasn't as sure-footed as many other things that have happened in the last few months, and that's a pity. We'll all get over it, but I think an article exploring some of the issues was timely and welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 The Trinity Road argument is a fine comparsion Peter. I was against that because I knew what was going to replace and how cheap and nasty it would be (from the outside) and from in the inside how ellis would never replace the gable. the difference here is that Lerner (no matter what you may say abotu the design) is puting in te required money and time to make the rebranding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Having viewed the training ground pics, including the tiled shower walls featuring the new crest, it has now sunk in that this is what we are going to have to live with, at least for a while. We've changed our crest before, so chances are we'll do it again, but let's hope that day comes sooner rather than later. For those of you who think the new crest is a total failure, all we can do is continually voice our displeasure on this forum, particularly when in dialogue with the General, and on any other Villa forum, for that matter. It is obvious that Villa are turning a corner and the crest is secondary to results on the pitch, but even as we become more successful, we should keep this crest conversation alive, otherwise we'll be stuck with it for longer than we want to be. In the final analysis, the crest should reflect the stature, strength and ambition of Aston Villa Football Club, and it is painfully obvious that this new crest does not achieve anything close to that criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Like the title of the article, it is an opportunity wasted. We have a logo that all of us fans will learn to live with, perhaps even love. But how about those outside the Villa family? A potential sponsor, the mom looking to buy something football related for her son, a tourist visiting the UK, the kid in Asia flipping through a football magazine...does this logo attract them? Does it make them gravitate to our brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Paul, did you see the sky plus coverage. they had the new badge on in 3D format spinning around and it looked great maybe the badge will look better in context and not just as a standalone item. Actually Ian it looked 'OKAY. Not great but okay.' This is an argument no one is going to win as with all pieces of design it's a question of taste. I am in both parties here on this. I do actually like it as a supporter, I can see the historical relevnce of it., I can see that it looks retro, I can see that it does look alot better than people would have hoped. However, from a designer sense I do not like it at all. It has a hodge podge mix of fonts, the lion is quite frankly pitiful, the star an aferthought and the overal design seems like it was in the studio at the agency as a job no one wanted to do but an account handler or studio manager/creative said that the deadline was upon them so they needed something so this annoyance of a job (which we all get) was looked at, the spod junior designer or most probably artworker/mac op did a quick search online at our old crests and came up with this. IT is very obvious that this is what happened. Now either by luck of by chacne they came across a badge which, whilst I like in some degree, I hate the obvious lack of professionalism in its execution. It is a really badly executed piece of design. Trust me!! The fact that it's outcome is something that people like is an absolute stroke of luck, and those involved I would guess KNOW THIS!! You and others like it for it just looks good, it says history, it says we've not forgot. But us professionals (and please, I am NOT being patronising at all), can see it's faults. We are not knocking the design as such, but the fact that the club have paid what must be alot of money to what should be a major agecncy to come with a design that doesn't look professional, and we arre staggered that the club would allow a good agency to do this. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Don't mean to stir up any arguement here, but the badge as it is, without worrying about what it could have been, has really grown on me now. It just oozes class to me now. I play Pro Evo 6 on playstation 2 all the time, and i've put the badge on our kit with a nike design and it just looks fantastic. It will look brilliant on a kit, sitting next to a nike tick, i'm certain of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I have to agree with everything written in the article. I find it hard believe anyone can look at our new crest and honestly say it looks good. Everyone I have shown it to, some villa fans most not, say it looks awful. However the new crest won't be changed so we all just have to accept it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Several things to answer; ‘no one cared today’; well of course they didn’t, it would churlish and silly to think that this is more important than three points. But thats not to say its not important. If identities/logos/crests weren’t you would wonder why that so many big brands care so much about them. Its a reflection of the company, and this crest would certainly not reflect as good as Villa could be. To the next; what are we going to do? Nothing, bar complain in these forums (that the club will read and hope take note). I don’t actually believe the club will or would change it. Why? Because if they could see the problems they wouldn’t have done it in the beginning (in my opinion). To LMs points. I don’t think its going to change. To its importance; We live in a modern visual culture, where everyone makes judgements on what they see. I fear that something that is as poor reflects badly on us. Maybe its the 0.01% of how the club performs; maybe its the way that somebody in some far away place picks a club or a sponsor invests in the club. Its not like they say ‘I will do it based upon the crest’, but its a subliminal influence on them. We have to be the best we can. i agree again with this totally 100%... although a friend made a good point for me, to help me come to terms with it... its getting rid of another ellis element, and for that, after thinking about it, i can accept it a little better... but from a design point of view, it still does not portray the image of us being the best we can be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 The badge is just fine. I like it. I hope those that don't will learn to accept it. An opportunity missed? Depends on your opinion on the badge. If you love it, it's an opportunity seized. It's a well written and enjoyable article, well done Paul, but it's not saying anything new really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I really love the new badge now - despite a bit of initial shock. Paul - I enjoyed your article and the points you made about the font will now annoy me a bit as although I don't think it matters, I would prefer it if people "in the know" looked at the font and said "ooh that's an interesting bespoke font they've designed" rather than felt it was lazy / cheap or whatever. Anyway - as you seemingly have some pretty good credentials I would be interested to see how you would have re-designed the new badge - don't tell me as a designer you haven't at least had the urge to knock up a little sketch...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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