stewiek2 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yes, an excellent article indeed. But (excuse me) - does it matter? Well, I'd have thought by the amount of responses and general level of feeling on the subject that it was pretty obvious it does matter, a great deal, to a lot of people. Sir - in the grand scheme of things this has to rate as utter minutia... Yikes - I regard the last years of Doug Ellis of being an important issue, but I think a badge is attracting more attention than that did!!!! :shock: Look, it so happens that I am not over the moon about the design, but it does have certain good qualities i.m.o., and therefore I'm happy to go with it... Us pontificating about fonts and other trivia is not going to change a thing - the club and what the managment's direction is are the two important things, and so far I have no complaints on that much bigger issue. I think they know where they're going, and I believe the direction issue will be solved on the pitch. Let's get a life and move forward. :arrow: Next topic? The thing is John that as supporters we were asked what we wanted, so when the product delivered is not to peoples liking, we have the right to say if we like it or not, AND say why? Okay so the bedge is here now and we are stuck with it, but that doesn't mean we can not raise our concerns about it if we feel so. For something to cause such debate shows it's flaws in my opinion. Paulo is bang on about it. Don't forget, we are critiqueing the final execution, not the concept. The conecpt is god, but the execution is flawed. To be honest all they needed to do was take the stripes out the old badge and, if desired, added a star to that. IT's a nice badge IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 No...just a redesign that looks professional and is not crap....one which even if it is not everyones choice..they will be proud to where..and at least confident it is a symbol of excellence.... The only justification for that would be if a huge majority of fans wanted it changed, my general feeling is that most are content with the first design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam100 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 i know you weren't asking me but i think it was Navy Blue Design Group they definatly did the spurs badge anyway, i've just looked on their site 'Brian Homer' on H&V said this - For the record this is what a guy from navyblue emailed me today: "The logo was actually designed by Randy Lerner at Aston Villa FC. We were only involved in organising and facilitating a workshop to help establish the brand values by talking to fans and various stakeholders." So Randy's a designer too! I'm quite good at running credit card companies despite being a designer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 4, 2007 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2007 ...I object to these 'professionals' giving it the big I am telling us it's rubbish, ... Baz, I agree with some of your post, to an extent, but I don't agree with the bit quoted. I look at it like this, if you watch the telly, MoTD or something, and Alan Hansen talks about defending, and explains why Watford let in a goal, it's not "giving it the big I am" it's just the opinion of a bloke who has experience of defending, talking about his opinion of defending. Same with Paulo and the badge. In either example, we're all free to agree or disagree, but it's worth, IMO, thinking about the "profesional" verdict, while reaching your own conclusion, without saying that AH or Paulo's view is tainted. It's obvious that the badge has not been universally liked. Me, I'm fine with it, now. It's our badge, and that's it. But If people who know about "fancy colouring in" analyse why they don't like it, and take the trouble to explain why, then were all better informed aren't we? It's a well written article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 We as designers are not saying what we think to belittle anyone else ro give it a billy big bollocks, we just say what we think from a professional standpoint thats all. Non-designers views are just as valid, if not more, as they are views that come from the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Ok, so by working on the basis 'that you can't please all of the people all of the time' we should go the route of hardly pleasing anyone? Sound logic I don't think. Of course its subjective and the various threads we had before of different designs came out would indicate as much. However, I don't think we'd have been that hard to please on this one. As good as it would have been to see a unique, new stand out design, based on an old theme (ala Arsenal and Chelsea) most Villa fans would, I feel, have gladly accepted a slight reworking of the original shield and gold lion on the old Trinity, or a return to the round badge circa 81/82 with a star ot top ala Inter and Celtic. PauloBarnesi's post sums up what many currently feel, and with his background dismissing the argument with 'does it matter, get a life' yada yada yada doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Not going to speak on his behalf as I'm sure he's more than capable of doing that himself, but I don't think its a case of a designer 'giving it the big one.' Like many he probably felt reluctant to criticise folllowing the many good and positive things that have eminated from the new board. Although I don't agree entirely about the design by committee argument. Whilst I understand his viewpoint as a designer, and fan consultation is not the norm on these kind of decisions, I thought it was a smart move by the board. But where they let themselves down is as well as asking what kind of elements fans were looking at, If they were going down that route, they should have put forward maybe 4-6 designs and let fans decide the most popular. I don't think its being unkind to say the current selection wouldn't have polled very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanfromluton Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 If we win games and get the odd trophy who gives a monkeys what the crest is. I would like the old Lion Crest, but would not complain at what the owners have done for us in so little a period. I dont want to expect trophies, but a combination of Randy and MON dhould bring us some success in the future IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Blandy, the comment was aimed at a number of things I've read over the last couple of days, and not so much this article which was well written. Everyone is free to an opinion, but the idea that a person with a professional background in the fields opinion carries more weight is wrong. Just to add, if my general feeling that most people are content/happy with the badge is right, then it cant be that bad a design, so I'd conclude that the professional verdict given by some is wrong. If a majority don't like it, fair enough, but I don't see that as being the case. Anyway, that's my final post on the subject. I'm content and I'm looking forward to the next football game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The thing is John that as supporters we were asked what we wanted, so when the product delivered is not to peoples liking, we have the right to say if we like it or not, AND say why? Okay so the bedge is here now and we are stuck with it, but that doesn't mean we can not raise our concerns about it if we feel so. For something to cause such debate shows it's flaws in my opinion. Paulo is bang on about it. Don't forget, we are critiqueing the final execution, not the concept. The conecpt is god, but the execution is flawed. To be honest all they needed to do was take the stripes out the old badge and, if desired, added a star to that. IT's a nice badge IMO. The "debate" also shows the kind of nit-picking that goes one when people are given the chance. :cry: Paulo may be accurate in his evaluation (and I've congratulated him on his article), but it's far from a poor design. I still maintain that most are happy to accept what's there - it's not perfect, but what design is ever perfect? ... But it's near enough excellent i.m.o. At least it gives a link with the past and promotes the future. And it will stand out on the shirts. Anything else is not really worth worrying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 ...they should have put forward maybe 4-6 designs and let fans decide the most popular. I don't think its being unkind to say the current selection wouldn't have polled very well. Yes, that's a very good point, mate, but life's not ever perfect! :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eston21 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 what they shouldve done was make one great desing and be over with it. in hindsight no fan input wouldve been much better solution. with the survey we were almost askign for something average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 but if we had had 6 badges to choose probably the winner would have only got 30% and people would have moaned still anc claimed it was all the fault of 10 year olds voting. never before we had this kind of input but someone has to have had the final say. As to Paul's article, I can not possibly quibble about what he says but the reaction in the mail was mixed and whilst there are aspects (the prepared font is the most obvious) that maye look wrong it is here to stay and in 4 months time this won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFart Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 We were never before asked for any input and I doubt if anybody would have had much input to offer. It would most likely have been, "Oh they're changing they badge, are they? What are they changing it to?" "I dunno, does it matter?" To which the answer would probably been "yes" only if we'd opted for something like a smiley (as Leeds did). Not saying this was a good thing, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I don't think voting from 6 or 7 finished designs was the way to go, for the reasons people have stated. If they were all decent, we would get the winning design only getting like 30% or something. Not good. I agree now with whoever said before that they should just have gotten a designer to do it without asking us. If we weren't asked, we couldn't have gotten as upset when our choices didn't win. And honestly, without the survey, I sincerely doubt the badge would have come out exactly how it did. A good design that stretched the guidelines in this case may have been better than a design that followed the survey guidelines to the letter. That Said, I just went to the Aston Villa wikipedia entry, noticed they had the new badge up as our emblem, and went to myself "hey that isnt too bad". It's a grower all right. At least it's a classic design, not ultra modern or anything. This means that it wont go out of fashion. On may 3 2008, someone should start a thread regarding the one year anniversary of the badge. By then I doubt people will still be bothered by it, and it will be accepted as part of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobbyrob Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Great article Paul. I'm with you 100%. When's the next re-branding excercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Not to labour the point, and whilst there is an element of truth in what you say- like Paulo- about design by comittee, if another design polled close to 30% that in itself would be an improvement. The current effort would probably poll nowhere near close to that. It's also a bit of a slap in the face to suggest the board messed up in seeking fan consultation and sets a precedent. The idea was well intentioned and must be applauded, the final execution poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeMoore Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 There are many people on here who will say "Just forget about it, move on, it's not important.", but they are wrong, it is MASSIVELY important to get this right as the club expands it's brand on an international scale. Pressure must be put on management immediately to get this thing done right, because as it is now, it is a total embarrassment. I've read other posts like this, i've read why people don't like the badge and i've read fellow designers tell us why the new badge is a poor design but i haven't once read what real negative effects this will have on us. What will having a badge that some like and some don't really do to our club? What will happen thats so bad it's MASSIVELY important to get this right and pressure must be put on the management to change it? I understand why some don't like it and after reading the posts from designers i can understand why they feel it's a flawed design but can someone help me understand why this will be so terrible for the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The Aston Villa badge isn't mentioned on the Navy Blue Design website AT ALL. Here's what they have to say about the (excellent, in my opinion) Spurs badge: Tottenham Hotspur Football Club Winning our spurs A football club’s badge oozes pride and history. So you need to tread carefully if you’re asked to evolve it. We bore this firmly in mind when English Premiership club Tottenham Hotspur came to us for help in modernizing its brand. As ever, we started by conducting extensive research, delving into the north London club’s heritage, as well as Premiership, European and world football. We also encouraged supporters’ input through a series of focus groups. The result is based around a refined, contemporary version of the club’s traditional ‘cockerel and ball’ badge. Warmly welcomed all round, it has been consistently applied across a range of promotional material and merchandise thanks to the thorough guidelines we produced alongside the brand refresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I believe a good majority are reasonably happy with the design I seriously dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villainies Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I'm happy with the re-design of the badge. Design is wholly subjective so clearly some won't like it. The sooner fans accept this is our new badge and move on the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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