VillaChris Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Someone will buy Bent and I think we'll see N'zogbia abroad at the end of the season. Can't say I'm that confident on shifting the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 No the overall question is whether the manager will be backed more when those players leave and the doubt i'm referring to is in line with those who have already left yet the manager still hasn't been backed on all his targets which HH has confirmed. The fact that the players I just mentioned are still on the books is probably a large part of that. You can add Ireland to the list of players out the door as his contract is up in the summer so that arguement is now looking increasingly thin to excuse a continual lack of investment which is my overall point. Stoke probably aren't paying all of his wages or even the majority of them, and in any case we're still paying him so no, I wouldn't say the argument is looking increasingly thin. If players like Ireland leave in the summer and the level of investment remains the same then yes it would be getting thin. Unless you have a direct line into Villa Park you can't know what the deal is concerning Ireland or any other player for that matter out on loan. The fact remains that we are no longer paying the full wages of players out on loan or those who have already left the club so the outlay on wages has and will continue to come down and for that reason the point concerning lack of investment due to wages is i'm afraid wearing thin whether you are able to accept that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Unless you have a direct line into Villa Park you can't know what the deal is concerning Ireland or any other player for that matter out on loan. The fact remains that we are no longer paying the full wages of players out on loan or those who have already left the club so the outlay on wages has and will continue to come down and for that reason the point concerning lack of investment due to wages is i'm afraid wearing thin whether you are able to accept that or not. Neither can you. It is highly likely though that they aren't paying the majority of his wages given how much he's on. You're treating players like Given and Ireland as if they're already gone but unfortunately they're not and we're still paying some of their wages, most of them in fact in the case of Given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 If ive read this right we have to get rid of a lot of salary before we sign a better class of player to a big wage, which in itself goes against the club's philosophy of signing lesser known players for next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Joleon Lescott could be a good loan target in January... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) We need help with both passing and possession http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014 We are 18th in retaining possession of the ball - not a surprise in terms of how we're geared to play - and 19th in the passing accuracy department, which is very worrying. Edited November 30, 2013 by StanBalaban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Joleon Lescott could be a good loan target in January... The defence seems to be alright at the moment, I'm not sure if we're on a tight budget we should be looking for a defender - though he's useful for attacking corners. We need someone who can unlock a team Having said that though, our players are very immobile, so I don't even know if Messi would be able to create anything with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 We need help with both passing and possession http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014 We are 18th in retaining possession of the ball - not a surprise in terms of how we're geared to play - and 19th in the passing accuracy department, which is very worrying. Those stats also show that our games have more aerial battles (508 so far) than any other teams bar Palace, Stoke, West Ham and Cardiff. Someone that can pass and create on the deck will be worth his weight in gold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Unless you have a direct line into Villa Park you can't know what the deal is concerning Ireland or any other player for that matter out on loan. The fact remains that we are no longer paying the full wages of players out on loan or those who have already left the club so the outlay on wages has and will continue to come down and for that reason the point concerning lack of investment due to wages is i'm afraid wearing thin whether you are able to accept that or not. Neither can you. It is highly likely though that they aren't paying the majority of his wages given how much he's on. You're treating players like Given and Ireland as if they're already gone but unfortunately they're not and we're still paying some of their wages, most of them in fact in the case of Given. Absolutely and at least I'm prepared to admit that. Question. Do you agree that wage outlay has come down? Question. Do you agree that several of the high wage earners have left our club and do you also agree in the case of Bent his full wages are being paid by Fulham plus we received a loan fee. Do you also agree that Ireland won't be back again since his contract is up in the summer? If you do agree on the basis of the above then we have brought the wage structure down enough for Lambert to be given more flexibility in the transfer market which is not even taking into consideration the increase in revenue from TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Unless you have a direct line into Villa Park you can't know what the deal is concerning Ireland or any other player for that matter out on loan. The fact remains that we are no longer paying the full wages of players out on loan or those who have already left the club so the outlay on wages has and will continue to come down and for that reason the point concerning lack of investment due to wages is i'm afraid wearing thin whether you are able to accept that or not. Neither can you. It is highly likely though that they aren't paying the majority of his wages given how much he's on. You're treating players like Given and Ireland as if they're already gone but unfortunately they're not and we're still paying some of their wages, most of them in fact in the case of Given. Absolutely and at least I'm prepared to admit that. Question. Do you agree that wage outlay has come down? Question. Do you agree that several of the high wage earners have left our club and do you also agree in the case of Bent his full wages are being paid by Fulham plus we received a loan fee. Do you also agree that Ireland won't be back again since his contract is up in the summer? If you do agree on the basis of the above then we have brought the wage structure down enough for Lambert to be given more flexibility in the transfer market which is not even taking into consideration the increase in revenue from TV. And I'm not? I don't recall ever claiming I had inside knowledge of anything that goes on at Villa. I don't agree that we have brought the wage bill down enough to give Lambert more flexibility because I don't have inside knowledge of what goes on inside (and you claim to accept this too) therefore I have no idea whether the wage bill has been brought down enough yet. The TV revenue goes up this season, so clubs won't actually get it until the end of the season. Likewise, Ireland may be leaving at the end of the season but he's still here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Unless you have a direct line into Villa Park you can't know what the deal is concerning Ireland or any other player for that matter out on loan. The fact remains that we are no longer paying the full wages of players out on loan or those who have already left the club so the outlay on wages has and will continue to come down and for that reason the point concerning lack of investment due to wages is i'm afraid wearing thin whether you are able to accept that or not. Neither can you. It is highly likely though that they aren't paying the majority of his wages given how much he's on. You're treating players like Given and Ireland as if they're already gone but unfortunately they're not and we're still paying some of their wages, most of them in fact in the case of Given. Absolutely and at least I'm prepared to admit that. Question. Do you agree that wage outlay has come down? Question. Do you agree that several of the high wage earners have left our club and do you also agree in the case of Bent his full wages are being paid by Fulham plus we received a loan fee. Do you also agree that Ireland won't be back again since his contract is up in the summer? If you do agree on the basis of the above then we have brought the wage structure down enough for Lambert to be given more flexibility in the transfer market which is not even taking into consideration the increase in revenue from TV. I guess we've all taken the preconceived notion that clearing the 'deadwood' from the wage bill will give Lambert the flexibility to build the squad again. It seem however that we're cutting the wage bill not to free-up more funds, but simply just to cut the expenditure at the club. So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Yet previously in this debate you've made clear assumptions on details of loan deals on certain players so inadvertently you have claimed some knowledge. Concerning tv revenue being available at the end of the season that money will be made available and is not in question so the club could spent some of that in January to bring more quality to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Yet previously in this debate you've made clear assumptions on details of loan deals on certain players so inadvertently you have claimed some knowledge. Concerning tv revenue being available at the end of the season that money will be made available and is not in question so the club could spent some of that in January to bring more quality to the club. I have never claimed to have any kind of inside knowledge. It doesn't take inside knowledge to know that Middlesborough won't be paying Given's full wages for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. There is a third reason and I believe that third reason to be that the club is being prepared for a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. There is a third reason and I believe that third reason to be that the club is being prepared for a sale. Yeah possibly. I've read on here that (probably questionable) sources have said PF has stated that Randy has no intentions of selling, but then he's not very likely to just come out with it if he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Yet previously in this debate you've made clear assumptions on details of loan deals on certain players so inadvertently you have claimed some knowledge. Concerning tv revenue being available at the end of the season that money will be made available and is not in question so the club could spent some of that in January to bring more quality to the club. I have never claimed to have any kind of inside knowledge. It doesn't take inside knowledge to know that Middlesborough won't be paying Given's full wages for example. No and and no-one would expect Middlesborough to pay his full wages and we also don't know what deal is in place for Ireland either but our wages outlay must be considerably less taking into consideration loan fees, players who have already left and players out of contract at the end of the season. It isn't rocket science or below any poster to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 No and and no-one would expect Middlesborough to pay his full wages and we also don't know what deal is in place for Ireland either but our wages outlay must be considerably less taking into consideration loan fees, players who have already left and players out of contract at the end of the season. It isn't rocket science or below any poster to admit that. Considerably less than when exactly? What are you comparing it to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So getting rid of Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton, Dunne, et al has / will result in a lower wage bill that's intended to stay low and not be built up again. Bent, Given, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia are all still here (although I think Fulham are paying all of Bent's wages). Ah yes, I realise that, but the point I was trying to make was that we all thought that clearing those big earners off the books will allow us to spend a bit more again, but it could be that clearing them off the wage bill will actually bring the expenditure to where it needs to be. There is a third reason and I believe that third reason to be that the club is being prepared for a sale. Yeah possibly. I've read on here that (probably questionable) sources have said PF has stated that Randy has no intentions of selling, but then he's not very likely to just come out with it if he was. If that is indeed the case (bolded) then depending on results and performances if we stagnate into being a mid-table Premiership team then i'm not sure thats going to be acceptable to the fan base especially if our level of performance is constant with this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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