Harry

Sadly I see nothing more than a defeat. I was relatively optimistic at the start of the season but we have totally failed to capitalise on our so called easy start. It's downhill from here.

Don't forget this is Villa Talk the home of knee jerk reactions and conclusion jumping

There is no doubting Clarks ability on the ball but his pace and strength for this position is surely not good enough and also a worry for me at CB. Herd whilst not as good technically, is strong, mobile and the lad cant half jump and thats why I think he should be given a run in this position. We agree again! Herd is the type of player we have been desperate for, IMO, for a long time. High energy grafter, great engine, good in the air etc.. I haven't seen enough of his distribution - and we won't know until he has had some time to settle - to know how good he could be. We need a player like this at the base of a CM three to allow the others to play. Totally agree on Herd he needs to be given a chance and we need to see more of Clark who for me is the most assured young player we have. Both need to be given proper chances. Bannan has been given his and look at him now (ignoring the events of Sunday morning!). We have to make the best of what we have got given the straightened times Lerner has imposed. Personally I'm pig sick of reading posters getting all dewy eyed about what it might have been like if we still had Milner, Barry, Young and Downing. It's the past. Allegedly managers such as Ferguson and Wenger are keeping tabs on players like Clark and Bannan but apparently they are not good enough for us.....until they play for another club and shine and then everyone moans that we should not have sold them.

You will wait a long time mate. Match officials policed by match officials and covered in Teflon. Totally agree on the match though, wrecked by a couple of clowns.

Good to see VT still remains the natural home of chronic overaction and extreme extrapolation of situations. I'm just waiting for someone to blame McLeish / Lerner / the Club / O'Neill / Houllier (delete all those that do not apply).

Whatever happened to the dream team? Lerner the 'model' owner who empowered an outstanding manager in the shape of MON and better still we had a director of the club in the shape of the General actually talking to the fans. It all seems a very long time ago.

The other thing I can conclude from the game is both Hutton and N'Zogbia are total shite. Hutton is a complete liability at RB, drifts in all the time and his attacking play is just woeful. I have also pretty much given up on N'Zogbia, we made the mistake of buying the best player in a shit side and guess what he is shit. I just don't buy this match fitness talk, for me he is just not good enough. Still we have Jenas on loan.....what great value for money he has turned out to be.

What made me smile was how his version of events changed between his interview on Five Live and MotD. He knew full well the sending off was total bollox but tried to justify it in his later interview. Total tool.

Totally disagree on the Hutton challenge on Long. It was in front of us and totally fair, he went in hard and won the ball. Dowd had a downer on Herd from kick off telling off for strong challenges so he probably creamed his shorts when the opportunity arose to send him off. Olsson was punching Herd in the shoulder and had was pulling him backwards by the scruff of the neck. As far as I could see Herd stepped backwards and trod on Olsson who did not appeal for anything. Then linesman and Dowd got involved and he's red carded. I listened to Olsson being interviewed on Radio Five on the way home and he could not explain it either. He categorically did not say he was stamped on. Up until that point I thought Herd was our MotM. Yet another example of piss poor refereeing that will be brushed under th carpet. As for the game our inability to defend at set pieces is very worrying. Bent for me was awful. He nearly missed the penalty and missed a complete sitter and was bossed by their centre backs all afternoon. Bannan was very good as was Gabby, both never gave up. Prior to the red card we were playing well and I believe we would have gone on to win the game. Albion are a very average side who got lucky today. As for everyone getting excited about the lack of shots on target. FFS we played two thirds of the game with ten men. Oh and the crowd was 34k for a local derby, another piss poor performance, and that was after heavy discounting of ticket prices. You can't help but think the board have dropped a bollock over how they are running the club.

What a predictable thread. Fellow Villa fans tearing chunks out of each other, posters extrapolating todays result to justify their views about Lerner or AMcL coupled with with the usual outrageous comments. The facts are really simple. Football today is all about money. We played a side who have invested the thick end of half a billion pounds in their squad. Their strength in depth is such that they can rest their so called better players and beat us comfortably. Personally I don't believe it would have made one jot of difference who our manager was. Its all about how much you pay the prostitutes that are most premiership footballers to play for you. Or MON would have made a difference? Try checking the recent results away to Man City. The simple fact is that Randy Lerner has not got enough money or more likely does not want to commit money to compete with countries or individuals who have made their money in natural resources and by and large have virtually unlimited resources. The clowns who regularly call for Lerner to leave are expecting what precisely? Oh yes that will be some sovereign state in the Middle East to buy us. All that will make us is the same as the pimps that are the owners and fans of the likes of Man City. Its a terribly sad condemnation of modern day football that I like probably many Villa fans had little interest in following todays match. It was abundantly clear what would happen, namely we would be soundly beaten. Of course that has given the McLeish haters fresh impetus but that is really missing the point. I personally doubt that any of the managers we could have had at the club post MON or Houllier could have done any better. Oh and one final thought. Milner not celebrating his goal? What a **** joke that is. He was going nowhere with his career save for having a season ticket for the U21s until he played for us. Perceived better money and prospects with Man City and he could not leave quick enough. I'd rather he had gone ape shit when he scored. At least that would have suggested he actually cared about his latest paymasters. The only slack I would cut him is he did not act like a total rocket polisher a la Gareth Barry.

:shock: probably the most outrageous comment I have ever read on VT.

And that's the point. Within a couple of years a good proportion of kids under 14 in Birmingham will be running round in their Man City tops. It grates but its called modern day football.

I'd be interested to see the stats of all the other sides who have played at Citeh recently before everyone starts the usual witch hunt.

Not bothering to listen to the commentary on Five Live, just checking the websites periodically. Why? If you spend half a billion pounds building a side, no sorry two sides, capable of both getting Champions League football and winning the Premiership who are playing a side who have spent roughly 15% of that its hardly a game. I expected a drubbing and guess what...that is precisely what we are getting.

Another thought that crossed my mind was whether Bannan would have made it with us under MON. I seem to remember someone saying on here that MON had told him he was too small and should find another club, though I don't know whether that was true or not. My guess is he would not have done as he would have been sold to a lower ranking Premier League club or a high flying Championship club for a couple of million and replaced by someone costing and being paid 4x as much. Also I think McLeish should get some credit for having faith in the lad and giving him some chances although you could also argue that the club had dictated that policy to him when he joined but then again you could argue that is maybe making the right call. That is certain to divide opinions.

I guess that's a risk with any player at the club or any player at any club. I thing he signed a new contract recently. The club have been putting the best young players on long contracts which is a very sensible tactic.

100% agree with that post.

Without wishing to fall out with you mate its a tad hypocritical to insult a poster (and for the record I don't know the history) and yet you start your post with a dig at a whole load of posters to this thread. I consider myself to be a Villa fan not a supporter or hater of McLeish. I was at Villa Park today and we played well and won. Could we have played better? Yes, Were there mistakes? Yes. Is there room for improvement? Yes. But at the end of the day we won and won easily. What i dislike is that there are a whole bunch of fans out there who seemingly want us to fail. If we lose it proves their agenda regarding McLeish or Lerner or the Club or whatever. If we win its never quite the right sort of win or never quite good enough. Well for the record I had a very pleasant afternoon at Villa Park in some barmy autumn sunshine. Not the best game I have seen but its three points. I'm guessing as you describe your location as Rome you we not there. Luckily I had the benefit of seeing everything that happened on the pitch.

Villa player well today and could have and should have scored 2-3 more. Gabby was outstanding as was Bannan who is starting to look like the player everyone said he could be. On the downside I did not like the way we shut up shop for the last quarter of the game and there were only 31k at Villa Park. I appreciate that economic time are tough which accounts for some of the reduced crowd but I have to say there is a significant body of 'fans' who have thrown their toys out of the cot with club and are now not attending. Sad really but to he honest if that's the level of their support we are better off without them.

Try telling that to the boo boys of VT. They have watched the 'directors cut' on TV for 45 minutes and clearly he's absolutely shite.

I do like the idea of Clark as the DCM. As I recall he did a good job in that role against Man U last season. He has the stopping attributes of a CB but he has better ball skills than most CBs so that role could be where he plays for Villa long term, IMO of course.

Agreed, I have always liked the look of Weimann and he deserves some chances. The Fonz has had a hatful over the last two or three seasons and never really proved himself (to me at least).

Let us not forget why we "harrassed" him. He came to us from the Small Heath board and called us merely "the men of the terraces". He turned EC winners into a relegated team in 5 years and ignored the best team we have had during the last century during his time at the club because he was not at the helm when they were at their peak. He took a huge amount of money out of the club in salary and when he sold to RL and he was also happy to name a stand after himself. Does he buy a ticket like we do to go to the games? HDE had a passion for money and the status that being our chairman gave him. His most recent claim was that he hand picked our new owner and MON. But enough of our former ruler. What makes it so sad for me now is that our bright future appears to have been allowed to become a bleak one so soon. Excellent post Brilliant Post. ... by all means.....lets discuss Randy and his strategy on the club ... however ..... Lets not start start thinking Ellis would be better. Absolutely right. I find the fact that some fans are getting all dewy eyed about the Ellis era little short of astounding. I actually feel quite sorry for RL. I think he came to the club with the best of intentions but events have overtaken him. He was lauded in the media as the model of a foreign owner and MON was seen as the perfect managerial appointment. How times have changed. Undoubtedly he has made mistakes. Certainly in my eyes the key ones are: - Two botched managerial appointments. - Failure to set proper parameters around MON's role at the club. - Allowing the wage bill to spiral out of control. - Failure to communicate with the fans or the media in any sensible manner. - Failure to publicly explain the strategy of the club. All that does not make him a bad owner but I do think now that maybe he is out of his depth. I don't know Paul Faulkner beyond having heard him him speak at a function I attended a year or so ago so I can't judge whether he is doing a good job or not. What is clear is he is Randy's man and retains his confidence. That of course does not make him a good CEO necessarily. Personally I would rather see us have a much more overtly strong CEO who perhaps more clearly stamped his authority on the club. RL is never going to talk to the media on a regular basis but you need someone who will. The most galling part of the last few months for me has been the club's attitude towards the fans. The objectives and strategy of the club has clearly changed but there appears to be an expectation that the fans will carry on whatever. Worse still they almost seem surprised when the fans don't attend as many games, renew ST's, buy merchandise, etc. The one thing I would say though is football attendances seem to be down generally so the only slack I would cut them is that I don't think the reduced gates are completely a function of their recent running of the club. We are in tough economic times and attending a Villa game, or any football match, is discretionary spending.

They are also probably the same fans that moan about the established players we sign and also say none of our academy players will ever make it. DOL had a word for it. Now what was it........?

Very pleased to see him back as I think he's a better player than the Fonz who has had lots of chances and for me, at least, never really nailed it. Weimann is much more route one which is what we need IMO.