Harry

As for the game I don't think anyone expected us to win its the manner of our defeat that is the problem.

This. And its not just Australia either. Jenas has grown one as as Collins. Not easy to see Collins's of course being a ginger. A bit like his contribution as a defender.

Very poor tonight. After the first goal on 15 minutes I thought we would get slaughtered so the only good thing I can say is we only lost by two but I think that was more about Spurs not trying. I watched the first half did not bother with most of the second half as it was abundantly clear we would get nothing out of the game and we were truly awful. Yes Spurs are a good side, miles better than us, but what really got to me was the attitude and motivation of our players. They could not give a monkeys. The tactics were a shambles. We clearly played for a draw but with our defensive record? FFS??!! When can we ever defend anything. One draw for AMcL being our manager was supposed to be he could organise our atrocious defence. Clearly that's not working. OK we have had the heart ripped out of the side with losing Young and Downing and AMcL has had to live with that but we are being organised in a piss poor way. You can't help but think another manager could do better. As for ratings I thought Herd did OK and Gabby gave it a go. On the downside Hutton is woeful and Heskey offers nothing. Collins is little short of a complete liability in defence. Bizarre really when we too have other options in all those areas.

The problem is you're just assuming we have this great plan to get us back competitive. What has happened in the last 18 months to make you think that? Once again the board have failed to really make it clear what we can expect from the future. I actually don't think there is a plan as such. What I do think is that there are some broad principles club wants to adhere to such as getting the wage bill under control, developing the younger players, improve the quality of the squad, living with in our means, etc. The danger of a plan is that it may not urn out like that. There was this much vaunted five year plan when RL bought the club. Whether it ever existed I don't know but that did not stop fans complaining about deviations from a plan they had never seen. Would you prefer the club to come out and say: "we are an average premiership side who on a good day may just scrape in to Europa League otherwise its about 10th each season but we hope to do well in the cup competitions" I think a former French manager of ours upset the fans almost to a man by saying something rather similar. In truth I think the problem stems from the fact many fans do not like the messages coming from the club.

I can't see that no, especially as an interview was put on the offical site as well. Exactly!! Lerner gave the interview to a credible and serious newpaper with national coverage thus allowing Villa fans in all parts of the country to read itit along with the wider footballing world thus demonstrating our position to the latter audience too. Last time I checked the Times is available at newsagents, supermarkets, petrol stations, etc. Better still it was on the OS less than 24 hours later. The Birmingham Mail is a shit local paper in terminal decline and most Villa fans in my experience distrust and dislike the coverage Villa get in that paper. As for the Daily Mail....well I think I will say no more than the Times has a little more gravitas if you want to be taken seriously.

And I think most of that is the strategy that the club is now trying to follow. You know...the one that the fans are getting really upset about.

He has numerous times like many others: - Decent board with an experienced CEO (£100m t/o niche consumer/sports business) and someone with football knowledge - Decent managerial appointment i.e. someone who will give the fans some hope - A cohesive PR strategy - No sudden U-turn on policies that leaves us short of players Okay for you? - please provide a short list of decent candidates for CEO - please provide examples of 'decent' managers who would 'give the fans some hope' - what is a 'cohesive PR strategy', and what is uncohesive about the current 'strategy', given that we have had more and much broader information from the club in the past 5 years than we had in the previous 50? - what 'sudden U-turn'? Decent candidates for CEO? I am not a headhunter/recruitment consultant but that list wouldn't contain a 32 year old "yes" man who had never been anywhere near a CEO poisition in a business that was anything like the Villa! Having met Fitzgerald, I didn't think he was any great shakes either but he was a significantly better attempt than PF! Short list of decent managers? As above and again my list would not include McLeish. I just can't see any upside in picking a man that will automatically alienate a large portion of our fan base (irrespective of whether this is right or wrong) who doesn't even have a particularly good track record. Cohesive PR strategy? If you think what we have had over the last few years given the decision the club has made is good then I really can't see any point in responding - we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Sudden U turn? Refers to his support for a policy of spending to suddenly be switched off to the point where we go into a new season without a decent experienced DCM. Thanks for taking the time to pick this up. My point was that it is not that easy, and I think that you have confirmed that we are both in agreement on that. Which was my point in the first place. My take from the interview is that Lerner's heart in in the right place and I find that reassuring. I also tend to think that if he was throwing shed loads of money at the club nobody would be complaining.

I do find it little short of hilarious that the criticism of RL is now focusing on the paper he spoke to. It looks like its going to be on the OS so it matters not one jot in the end.

The Times in paper form costs a £1, surely if fans are interested they should pay the money. Its in what might be termed a 'serious' newspaper which adds credence to what he is saying and probably ensures its not dumbed down into a few meaningless sentences as would have happened if it had been in the Sun or the Mirror. Mind you the reaction is precisely what I expected. Fans moan that Lerner never talks to the media so he does and the fans do not like what he is telling them. Priceless. Oh and he spoke to the wrong newspaper. *head in hands*

Good news. Midtable is where everyone wants to be anyway. maybe he should give us a free scarf again this winter, that should please everyone. Perhaps instead of bleating like a stuck record on this thread about everything that is wrong you would outline your vision for what the club should do going forward. Just a thought.........

Good article, nice to see him clarify a few points.

Which must be the media event that MM alluded to recently. Look forward to it.

To be honest its a pretty big statement to come on here or any forum and state that MON was sacked without being precise over what evidence you have to support that statement. I would agree there has never been a definitive explanation but the generally accepted version of events is that MON did not wish to have controls put around his role on the football management side of the club. Neither party has ever disputed those facts and bits and pieces that have come out from those in the know or who claim to be in the know have tended to support that version of events namely MON felt his position had been made untenable (rightly or wrongly). On area where I think we can be more definitive is MON did take his case to arbitration and there was some sort of settlement although that was confidential so talk of a 'substantial settlement' is conjecture. In addition the fact a confidentiality agreement was apparently signed proves nothing and is often the case in a high profile settlement. Added to that the fact that a settlement took place is not proof that he was 'fired'. For example MON could have become so disenchanted he went in and resigned on that fateful Monday morning and walked out of the club. He is on a 12 month rolling contract so strictly speaking he has to give 12 months notice. If he has walked out the club stop paying his salary on the basis he has refused to work his notice. He then turns round and files a claim for constructuve dismissal on the basis the club has changed and undermined his role as manager. The club want to pay him nothing as they have been left high and dry and MON wants at least his12 months of money. Negotiations commence which end up with arbitration and he receives some sort of settlement. Neither he nor the club want lots of adverse PR, the club know they will have to pay something and MON expects something. All conjecture on my part but perfectly rational. Interestingly the case has been very different to say that of Alan Curbishley which was all over the press and amounts were quoted.

Sorry, how do you know what conditions MON would work in? The only way MoN would stay is if he could screw the club up? And you truly believe an independent tribunal who heard all the facts awarded a large compensation package to Mon because he refused to sort out the finances and just quit? Really? And you know that for a fact?

Tom Ross, that fountain of reliable information........Hmmmm

Keeping a low profile as ever. Mind you MM did say he was going talk to the media in the near future. Assuming that is true I for one would love to hear what he thinks, straight from the horses mouth as it were. The funny thing is he seems in many fans to have gone from hero to zero. In the early days when MON was manager and the General was posting on here he was held out as the model foreign owner. It seems such a long time ago.

I'd be interested to know how many former Evening Mail Forum posters there are on VT. Anyone care to own up?

I've just had to Google POF to find out what it is but then again I have been married (happily) for more years that I care to remember. Clearly I am on the wrong thread

Great to see three points secured but I do hate those buttock clenching last 10 minutes at Villa Park. Overall we played very well and to be honest if our finishing was a little sharper we would have scored a couple more. I did smile when MotD picked up on an (accidental) handball in the build up to one of our goals whilst failing to point out Hutton being fouled in the build up to their second which meant he was hobbled back and out of position. Special mentions: Gabby - truly awesome and I can't see him leaving, Villa through and through. Bent - did his job very well today. Herd - he is seriously starting to impress me as a player. Clearly has been told to calm down by AMcL. Funnily he is not the one of that crop of young players who I thought would make it. N'Zogbia - best game so far in a Villa shirt, still work in progress, but getting there. Jenas - was never a fan but a sublime little cameo today. Looking forward to seeing more and I think he may turn out to be a clever signing. Bad points: Too much hoofing from defence, our passing on the ground is good so there is no need. Substitutions: We should have brought on Clark as when Petrov went off Ireland severely weakened our defensive capabilities although he showed some nice touches going forward. Poor crowd yet again but those of us who were there were well entertained. Overall I can see what the manager is trying to do but the real test is the next few games.

Oh and this talk of land sales is meaningless. If I had a company that owned a piece of land that was of no value to my company and I could sell it for a decent price I would. Last time I checked Villa were neither property developers or estate managers.

I think you have nailed it there. My recollection is everytime the club makes a statement or sends a letter VT goes into meltdown with posters analysing the nuances of each phrase looking for hidden meanings or drawing conclusions that simply are not there. The simple truth is the club is damned if does and damned if it does not. If the club were to make a statement the best one it could make would be to have a brief interview with Randy Lerner talking about his commitment to the club and his plans for development. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Of course that pre supposes that he has both commitment and plans.

Are you saying we should be in the championship? Sometimes I wonder if it would be all that bad if we were.... No we shouldn't just be there full stop. But its really not the end of the world, if you stop and think about it for a min. It may not be the end of the world precisely but for me and most fans it would be a complete and unmitigated disaster. Why? Because I could not see us getting out of that division any time soon. We would lose our remaining decent players plus the best of our young players. Crowds at Villa Park would be decimated and given we have to balance the books in the new austere Lerner world, that plus the loss of the Sky money would mean we would be stuck in the Championship for years. So I have thought about it.

Oh and Hutton seems to be total shite so if he cannot play that seems to be positive advantage.

he is, it's his one and only downfall imo, he's a brilliant centre half with a great future Given you usual stance on our young players I was glad I was sitting down when I read your comment.

Going back to the original title of the thread my sense is that Randy has completely lost interest in the club and we are now being run on a 'care and maintenance basis'. My basis for thinking this is no more complex than the total lack of information coming from the club beyond the usual platitudes and propaganda. Faulkner inspires no confidence at all, that total and utter clown 'the General' has gone to ground, thank goodness, and Randy is.......who knows. Meanwhile the club is collapsing around their collective ears. I don't know much about American football but as far as I can glean Randy Lerner seems to be perceived as a piss poor owner of a football franchise and that seems to be where Aston Villa are heading. Funnily enough I have no problem with the principle of Randy controlling expenditure. It's just that with every else. The lack of communication, the managerial appointment shambles, the lack of clear direction, the treating the fans like fools. I could go on. For example it's OK to limit transfer funds and wages if you have a really good manager to work within those constraints like David Moyes but we made a hurried appointment totally contrary to the criteria we had previously set out. That smacks of poor management yet again.