srsmithusa

Do distinguish it from all the necessary digs that comprise these pages??

Don't buy the covering defender idea. The "touch was too strong and Andi had no real chance to reach it before the keeper" is impossible to measure. Did the contact or eminent contact, impact Andi's last touch? As a villa fan, i'm with you, but the refs decision on this one was reasonably defensible, at least. (Damn it)

That's unlikely to happen frequently unless we buy players with money and offer said players money, rather than coupons and 10% off at Villa Village. I don't know... I'd probably come for that. Oh, wait, your talking about good players.... nevermind.

Following up on my last post... Albrighton gave a great example against Stoke. He was pushed off the field of play. Since the ball and the push were both out of play, the referee had three options. Caution Stoke, restart with a throw-in to Stoke. Verbally admonish Stoke, throw-in to Stoke. Ignore the contact, throw-in to Stoke. He chose the third. (I thought he should have done, at least, the second. Not just becuase I'm Villa biased, but also think he would have instilled more confidence in the players.) If Weimann had been joined by some others and they had done more pushing and hostility toward the culprit, more action would have been much more likely. In any case, after the minor handbags that ensued, you can predict the referee will be looking for something small he can call to re-assert control. So, within 10 seconds, Albrighton goes in, knee high, studs showing. A caution for Albrighton was inevitable. Foolish timing for a high risk tackle.

I would like an alternative to the "like this" button. But "Dislike" is too mundane. Can we have a "are you %&@%@& insane?" button? And maybe a "broken record" button? (apologies to everyone less than 25 who has no idea what vinyl sounds like.)

The most interesting referee related event in the MU match was how easily their players manipulated the referee. We had three players cautioned (Lowton, Gabby, Baker) because after a tackle that the referee had not called (Baker should have been, and maybe Lowton) the aggrieved manUre player got up pushing, angry, "squaring up." Our players instinctively, but naively responded in kind... (in the case of Gabby it was delayed and he should have known better). When you square up after a foul, even if you got shoved in the back (like Lowton and Baker) the easy way out for the referee is to book them both. It's exactly what he did. But teams that have been coached and made strategy based on the referee, know this. Coaching tip for you youngsters out there. If you want to slow the match down... of if you want the referee to call more fouls in general (let less contact go as acceptable) it's easy. Over-react with aggression and hostility to the contact made. Overreacting with aggression aimed at the referee is wasted. He will ignore your appeal and/or book you. Overreact with aggression aimed at the opponent(s) and the opposing team players that defend thier teammate. (Don't aim at the head or neck or groin, don't commit striking or spitting, in which case, it's just easy to send you off.) Again, this aggression is after the play, behind the play, not just playing more physically. The modern referee assessor may (but likely not) question a referee if he ignores appeals for more calls. He will not ignore, if it appears the referee is losing control of the match. Non- play aggression between the teams will force the referee to start calling the game more tightly and decrease the flow of the match, helping you kill off the clock and any flow or rhythm the opponent may wish to develop. If you watch the game again on tape (painful though it will be) you will notice that after each of these incidents there are several minutes in which the referee restablishes a tone of tighter control on the contact. BTW, from Villa's standpoint. Ignore the shove in the back, walk away. Laugh off contact, jump up ready to play. Help any opponent up with a big friendly smile and a laugh. Even if the referee warns you or books you, take it all with a good natured, smiling, "we're all just having fun out here" kind of attitude. And if the referee does respond to an incident with a double booking (safe way to control a dangerous situation without causing too much ill will) play squeeky clean for the next few minutes. The referee will be looking for a chance to call some little things to set the tone of match control higher. One last thought, if you don't think that lots of clubs are coaching their players to manage referees like this, you're sadly mistaken. It's almost as prevalent as diving. Just less obvious. The surprising thing was that an experienced refereee was so clearly and easily influenced in this way.

Sell Benteke. Reset the paramaters based on the dollars that creates. Also, raise money by fining every poster on Villa Talk who posts something I disagree with. (Probably save the club with that funding source alone)

It seems to me Gaston was clear and comments have gone in a thousand directions. What has turned him off is the people, not the performances or the wins. He mentions the player salaries, but focuses on the negativity of fans on this site and in the crowd. Clearly the negative direction of whom to blame the thread has taken, sort of makes his point. I get tired of it too, but since the General and I are the only Villa fans within 300 miles I can just stay of the villa pages on the web and escape it whenever I need to. It's harder to do in the UK where it's all over news and friendly discussions. Villa literally NEVER comes up in any of my daily discussions unless I bring it up. My only thought for Gaston (if he's bothering to read at this point) is, a take off of "if you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs." and "Don't let the turkey's get you down." In my words, don't let the negativity of others destroy your joy. If you do, you essentially become one more negative voice. Without intending to, you actually can't beat them, so you join them. That's a lot of negative disappointment and misery to lay on yourself. If you stay or go, I wish you great happiness. I'll be here cheering, and trying to stay positive no matter the fans, the player salaries, or anything else. Otherwise it's just no fun. All the best,

Chicken and Egg Quality and Support

close to my opinion.... with Vlaar - win without Vlaar - draw no real basis, I just prefer optimism. Is that optimism my friend? Looks like a draw to me. Based on our form in the last couple, it's both a draw and optimism.

close to my opinion.... with Vlaar - win without Vlaar - draw no real basis, I just prefer optimism.

The last two were awful. Against Aresenal and Man City and even chelsea we were excitng, entertaining, fun to watch. The same manager did both, with the same squad. The difference? Injuries, suspensions, and the form of a few key players. It happens. It's awful, depressing, maddening, frustrating, and sad.... But the manager should not be sacked. Not even close.

Lesson from today is already clear. Give Marc MOTM and loan everybody to Wigan tomorrow morning.

Common Villa! If we get one back early, ManUre's confidence will drop even faster than ours did after their goal.

deleted post

Yes, it's a great idea. Build it here, in the wrong Birmingham, I'll be able to buy season tickets, then. See, season ticket sales are up already.

Ok, for whatever reason, you make absolutely no sense to me. It truly feels like you are quarreling just to be quarrelsome. Not me, so, I'll go back to talking about Villa

No, you didn't address it and to be honest I don't think this really answers it either. Player error and refereeing error are two separate things, and this is shown in the reactions from fans. If a player makes a bad pass or misses an open goal fans of the team that players play for will be annoyed but there won't be a feeling of injustice because it's all part of the game. On the other hand, blatant refereeing errors are seen as just that - injustices. Even if more technology was brought in to reduce referee error (and I never actually said I was for this) there's no way it would move on to reducing errors from players. I never said referees weren't necessary. Of course they are We are clearly having a failure to communicate. I thought I explained my attempt to use the absurd idea of using technology to correct all player erross as an ilustration that it is equally absurd to use technology to correct all referee error. Human beings make errors. Period. In my opinion, supported by the Laws of the Game, that includes errors made by players, managers, referees, groundskeepers, etc. They are all a part of the game. You agree that the referees are a necessary part of the game. Once they are necessary, their errors are inherent and inescapable. Just like players. If you can't follow my attempt to illustrate abusurdity with the absurd, then I can't explain it any better than that. Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but are your seriously claiming that I'm wrong because fans react differently to referee errors, than they respond to player errors? I react differently to Fulham errors than I do to Villa errors, are only one a part of the game? Again, I think one of us is completely mis-understanding the other. I'm willing to operate on the assumption that I am the one misunderstanding you. But if we determine what's right and wrong based on fans reactions, we have made the discussion of human error explode to infinite proportions. I don't think we want to leave foul replay review to a vote of those in attendance, or a SKY selected mix of fans from one team or the other, or even fans at all! I certainly don't want commentators making those decisions. Simply becuase fans feel injustice doesn't mean the errror is inherently different. It's still error. I would rather not let the fans reactions be the arbiter of truth. There is already enough of a home field advantage (for everyone On related topics relative to referee error (which I and the laws of the game say are part of the game Sorry, couldn't resist.... ) Similarly to BOF, based on my experiences, I am able to see referee decisions with a bit more neutrality than most. BTW, did you know that research indicates that teams wearing red have more fouls called against them? Also, if neutrals are shown the same video in mirror image, they interpret a challenge as more physical and violent if the aggression comes from the left to the right than if it comes from the right to the left. (This research utilized subjects whose native language reads left to right, so that might have impacted those results.)

Ponky, I agree. Mantis please re-read the 4th paragraph in my last message. It's where i addressed what you then said i had not addressed. Of course technology like headsets for communication and goal line technologies can and will reduce error, but error from the referee is still part of the game according to FIFA, and the FA in the laws of the game. Removing referee error is no more likely than removing all player or management, or villa talk error. I am adamantly opposed to anything that would stop the flow of play to try to make certain the unavoidable is avoided, BTW i understand your argument. But player errors are there because players are necessary, like it or not, an arbiter is mecessary as well. The idea of letting the 2 captains agree on all the decisions was abandoned long ago, for good reason. It didnt work. Referees are necessary participants. Anytime any human is involved errors occur and are unavoidable, hate to admit it, but my surgeon isn't perfect under ideal conditions. I am in favor of greater accountability as i suggested and/or as ponky suggested.

I don't want to be a pest, but i gave you reason and evidence that referee errors are part of the game. And asked for your reasons to think otherwise, not just your assertion. It's clear you think referee errors are somehow different. But you haven't given me a reason to agree with you, certainly not one that outweighs the laws of the game. You said that "all sport revolves around the participants make mistakes to an extent." We agree. I just think referees are participants, and the LOTG support my view. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine. I made the jump to using technology to correcting player errors in an effort to illustrate (by absurdity) that trying to remove human error from sport is not the path to take it. All that being said. The first PK at fulham was questionable at best. The second was dead certain and mr Dean and his AR both screwed it. IMO worst referee decision in our season was failing to notice john terry's hand was in the air and unnatural position, stopped a late attacking chance, there have been others, some have favored us. But every fan remembers the ones that piss us off better than the others. I dont think referee errors should be ignored. See my post above about what i think should be done.

Mantis, clearly asserted that "player errors are part of the game - errors from referees or linesmen, are not (or shouldnt be)." Nicely asserted, but no real evidence for that opinion. The laws of the game give some clear indication that the errors of the referee are part of the game. 1. Ball bounces off referee and goes into net? goal. The referee is considered part of the field. 2. Referee sees foul and intends to caution, but does not prevent a quick restart, and play resumes with no caution given? No caution may be given for that offense. Play has already restarted. 3 referee calls goal and kick off taken. At next stoppage, AR communicates that the scoring team had 13 players om the field when the goal was scored? Goal stands. 4 obvious one.... Player commits studs up brutal tackle that should have been SFP and send off, but referee only cautions. Result, the culprit keeps playing and decision on field cant be changed since the crew saw it. ( sanctions and fines may be added at league doscretion, but no delayed "sending off" by the review committee Referee errors, like all human errors are a part of the game, whether you assert or opine otherwise, or not. Your turn, but I would request facts rather than an offhand dismissal based on assertion and opinion alone.

If we will attempt to bring in technology to correct the inevitable human errors of the referees,... What technology will we bring in to correct the errors of the players. If bacuna hits a hugely misplaced pass to the opponent and they score, lambert can overrule that touch and give and IFK to bacuna to try again? Sessegnon puts one over the bar from 4 yards out and the video player is allowed to overrule the terrible error and count the goal? Yes there are referee errors in a game. But there are more player errors, poor touches, mis-timed balls, etc. than missed calls in most games. When errors are eliminated from players, not to mention managers, then we can focus on the lesser errors referees make. But it needs to be done instantly with no delay for interpretation, otherwise it takes away the flow of the game. Or maybe, you should just all become fans of american football where 22 obese men in tight clothes stand and talk for 2 hours interrupted by intermittent bursts of frenetic activity lasting from 2-7 seconds..... Or chess. Rant done Realistically, the referees are assessed. Their errors should be publicly announced and analyzed, and used as education for younger referees that want to advance. Those with a pattern of consistent error can be moved to lower league to fix the problem.

Tasteless and hilarious! Thanks

Not likely to win any possession battle, better to get point(s) anyway. This would result in a huge uproar on here, but its the most likely to get point(s) and that's the only thing that really matters. So... 5-4-1 (depending on who's fit.) Guzan Lowton, vlaar/clark/herd, clark/baker, baker/Luna albrighton, westwood, kea, tonev Gabby (maybe kozak?) Frutrate united early, and we could walk away with something. Their belief is slipping badly.

For me you've just described the delph of old. I think he has cut a lot of this kind of thing out of his game, he now uses his little Cruyff like turns and keeps the ball close to him and distributes it nicely. I hope you're right. Surely the coaching staff can see anything I can, and has been working on it. If it doesnt get better, as you think is happening, he will never be the great we hope for. Let's watch him closely at Craven Cottage and compare notes then. Villan 007. Based on today, you are right. I stand correctable, Seriously, he kept close control. Not much else went right, but he did show close control. Very pleased.