Zatman Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 we probably paid more money for Kozak than on 4 of them players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 so what you're saying is we'll never spend big on a player again because (obviously) the best players expect to be paid well ? if that's the case then fair enough. come out and say 'our sole intention now is to remain a bottom half side'. at least nobody could question their motives then a club of the stature of Aston Villa deserves more than that IMHO. you don't have to agree. it's a free world That assumes that it is actually impossible to break into the top four without having players that ( a ) expect high wages, and ( b ) command huge transfer fees. Now, I accept that ( a ) is a given. Once you start to be successful, and the 'big' clubs come calling, you can only hang onto the good players if you can pay them handsomely (and offer them the likelihood of winning silverware). We've seen that with Benteke. But I'm not convinced that ( b ) is so obvious. With the right combination of academy and scouting, it MAY be possible to get a 'conveyor belt' of talent going. This is clearly the model that Lambert is adopting. If the bottom falls out of the crazy 'spend, spend, spend' culture - which we keep being told it must - then clubs like ours have the right business model in place to take advantage. Buy low, sell high, but pay appropriate wages. And build a club culture that makes players want to stay. Some will be purely mercenary and Bale out at the first opportunity, but not all will. I think it's an approach worth trying, and I don't believe that it necessarily condemns us to being a 'bottom half' club. This is a far more eloquent, sensible response than I could ever hope to make. So, er..... THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 i dont think Lambert doesnt want to spend big money. I think he doesnt want to overspend on players that arent worth it like previous managers then he should buy players that are worth it like previous managers Can you tell me those players that are worth it? Would love to know. Of course, off the top of my head Young Downing Milner Friedel Laursen Mellberg Carew Petrov Bent all proved very worthwhile See what we paid out on all those players and what we recouped in terms of cash back and success? In fact all of these players in their time at VP have featured in a struggling side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know We sold of our best players because Saint Martin paid more for Curtis Bloody Davies than Ashley Young. He paid more for NRC than we paid for Benteke. In fact he paid more for Cuellar who wasn't even an International, more than PL has spent on two internationals in Vlaar and Okore. You say that Pl's strategy will not work but I can tell you something us pissing money up the wall never worked either, we were left with dross players that we couldn't even get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know Spurs have done it - each year you grow. Sell berbatovs and modrics of this world and put it back into the team. How long did it take them? 6 -7 yrs and they were bottom of the league at one stage. The plan isn't to spend 13 mill each season, it's to build on that. Sell tekkers, re-invest. It's the only way without oil money. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know What's the point in you being here then? Give up and stop watching. Welcome to 2013 football, it's been heading this way this 1993 and here we are now. It's shit. Best off giving up and doing something else until an oil baron comes and buys us. Or just enjoy the ride and last minute equalisers against Hull away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know We sold of our best players because Saint Martin paid more for Curtis Bloody Davies than Ashley Young. He paid more for NRC than we paid for Benteke. In fact he paid more for Cuellar who wasn't even an International, more than PL has spent on two internationals in Vlaar and Okore. You say that Pl's strategy will not work but I can tell you something us pissing money up the wall never worked either, we were left with dross players that we couldn't even get rid of. No. Randy did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 If people claim Lambert doesn't want to buy expensive players as it's not his style, what are they going to say next summer when we sell Benteke for 40m + and spend 5m on a replacement ? I have to say as a supporter, I wont be happy seeing that extra huge wedge of money going into the coffers and not being reinvested in the first team I pay to watch Aston Villa on the pitch, not the balance sheet I don't think anyone is suggesting Lambert doesn't want to buy expensive players. Anyone who suggests any different is talking rubbish. But if it isn't available right now then it isn't there and you just have to get on with it! Maybe it will be further down the line but why don't you just be happy at you have a better team and a better squad than you did before he arrived! But it is available! The people ITK have been telling us for years it's not the transfer fees that are the problem, it's the wages ... Oddly, now the wage bill is way down things still don't seem to have changed We've lost the bulk of the bad apples from O'Neill's time here, but still are hindered massively by Houiller's & McLeishs, mainly Ireland, at best Stoke paying half his wages, Bent, although he's on loan he isn't gone yet, Given, could well be stuck with him for another 3 years, Hutton, another one who adds nothing & N'Zogbia, who's wages aren't really known but we spend a big wedge of cash on him so I'd imagine he's on about £40k a week minimum. The problem is that Matty Lowton was absolutely brilliant last year and got a new deal and that new deal for being superb is almost definitely less than what Hutton is on for adding absolutely nothing, the same can also be said for player of the year Guzan and Shay Given. Don't forget Lambert has added 15 new players in the 14 months he's been here, 4 of which have already got new deals, and another 3 academy graduates also got new improved deals. People sometimes just see the wages going down and not creeping back up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I think that Villa are still in a recovery phase from years of overspending on just above average players, including older ones with absolutely no sell on value. RL/PF must have studied all the projections related to varying models of investment against prospective return. I'm guessing that the current level of investment including wages is the maximum that RL can justify until we establish our credentials as a probable top six team contender. Some of us might justifiably argue that this level of investment will not get us to that level, so it is up to PL and his players to get 100% out of what we currently have available. Imo RL will not increase the level of investment until we reach the point where the potential for substantial financial reward is within sensible targetable reach. Spurs have a good chance of a top three finish this season so have just done this, and although their transfer fee expenditure has been largely covered by Bale's departure, they have still hugely increased their wagebill. Harsh lessons have been learned at Villa Park over the last few years, and now "we go again" as Paul Lambert might say. UTV !!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know What's the point in you being here then? Give up and stop watching. Welcome to 2013 football, it's been heading this way this 1993 and here we are now. It's shit. Best off giving up and doing something else until an oil baron comes and buys us. Or just enjoy the ride and last minute equalisers against Hull away. Ha, we've got a billionaire owner!, who swept into Villa Park with 'i'll get us back in the champions league' fanfare. His PR sidekick told the fans we could well see mega star signings, that we WOULD get back in the Champions League and everything would indeed be a bright future. Excellent we all thought, about time too He then spent a 'huge' 20m plus a season (not even that spread over the course of his stay so far) in a wafer thin attempt to live up to his word. Now coming up for 7 years later, apart from 3 dalliances with the top six, we've had 3 relegation battles, the worst managerial appointment in Villa history and have sold off our best players year after year because we're unable to get to the level that top players want to play at (this because, we keep selling them off instead of completing the jigsaw of course, for example prior to signing Bent we'd been crying out for a proper goalscorer for years. So then we finally sign one and 5 months later sell his supply line and then fail to reinvest the proceeds (38m) in buying a new one ... GENIUS!) We can all fast forward to next summer and guess how it'll play out. We'll sell Benteke for say 40m and finally buy the midfield play maker (for maybe 10m) that we've been crying out for years and years ... and then wonder why we have nobody banging 20 goals a season in ... and so on and so on. You can almost put your money on it playing out like that already. It's been a shambles. Yet because it's in my blood (unlike theirs) i'm the one that suffers. They still get paid however bad we're doing as a club, i on the other hand have to pay regardless Edited September 4, 2013 by Ulver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I dont see why you find it so difficult to grasp. Of course our intentions aren't to be a bottom half club, it's to get back to where we belong but doing it in a sensible, sustainable fashion. Unfortunatley this is going to take time. We made a huge mistake in our approach to get into the top four and it's somethnig we have being trying to rectify ever since. We are very lucky - we've been through hell and back and some how managed to stay in the league, when other clubs have faded away never to return. IMO we have come out the otherside of the tunnel now, with a fresh approach, a new squad that will only get better and a manager that can take us even further. It can't be done. You can't get back to where you belong on the cheap (assuming you mean up there challenging for things?). It's unheard of. Especially as we WILL sell our best players off as we go without reinvesting in the same quality (sell Young and Downing for 38m, sign N'Zogbia for 9.5m to replace them both being a classic example). You can debate it all you like but it can't be done on the model we've apparently adopted We're being run like a corner shop club these days. Randy's so called 'mad spending' under O'Neill still only worked out at about 20m per season over the course of the O'Neill era (someone feel free to do the maths) even without the sales of the better players he brought in after he left the club. There never was a BIG spend. There was BIG talk i'll grant you that, especially via Randy's puppet Krulak. But it's all been proved to be nothing but hot air as we all know What's the point in you being here then? Give up and stop watching. Welcome to 2013 football, it's been heading this way this 1993 and here we are now. It's shit. Best off giving up and doing something else until an oil baron comes and buys us. Or just enjoy the ride and last minute equalisers against Hull away. Ha, we've got a billionaire owner!, who swept into Villa Park with 'i'll get us back in the champions league' fanfare. His PR sidekick told the fans we could well see mega star signings, that we WOULD get back in the Champions League and everything would indeed be a bright future. Excellent we all thought, about time too He then spent a 'huge' 20m plus a season (not even that spread over the course of his stay so far) in a wafer thin attempt to live up to his word. Now coming up for 7 years later, apart from 3 dalliances with the top six, we've had 3 relegation battles, the worst managerial appointment in Villa history and have sold off our best players year after year because we're unable to get to the level that top players want to play at (this because, we keep selling them off instead of completing the jigsaw of course, for example prior to signing Bent we'd been crying out for a proper goalscorer for years. So then we finally sign one and 5 months later sell his supply line and then fail to reinvest the proceeds (38m) in buying a new one ... GENIUS!) We can all fast forward to next summer and guess how it'll play out. We'll sell Benteke for say 40m and finally buy the midfield play maker (for maybe 10m) that we've been crying out for years and years ... and then wonder why we have nobody banging 20 goals a season in ... and so on and so on. You can almost put your money on it playing out like that already. It's been a shambles. Yet because it's in my blood (unlike theirs) i'm the one that suffers. They still get paid however bad we're doing as a club, i on the other hand have to pay regardless Except this yr - small steps. I know why your angry, but all that has finished now. We have to start again. Holding onto our best player is a small step in the right direction. Yep it sucks, but we go again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 dont think our owner ever said we would get back into the Champions League dont remember anybody mention mega star signings. stopped reading after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Ulver, I can see you're bitter about perceived broken promises (with some justification). Problem is that Premiership football is a risky business and we cocked up big time. I believe the good intentions that Randy had were swamped by total inexperience. So .... let's put that behind us now and get behind what AVFC are currently trying to do. I don't expect us to pull up trees this season, but I do expect to enjoy some real excitement as we bust a gut to put points on the board with our sometimes frightening brand of football! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 a Billionnaire owner who doesn't have bottomless pit of money, he always stated he wanted us to be self-sufficient. The plan was to give it a go which we did and we weren't quite good enough for many reasons and that wasn't due to the backing Randy gave. It was mainly due to the fact of our purchasing of average players on astronomical wages which was the issue, you can blame Randy but he genuinely thought the players MON wanted would get us where we wanted to get, when the majority of us knew signing Marlon Harewood for 4million was laughable. Even the scout chosen by MON said it was pointless of him having a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 dont think our owner ever said we would get back into the Champions League dont remember anybody mention mega star signings. stopped reading after that You don't remember Krulak's we could spend 30m on one player posts or the 5 year plan for CL?, not idle words it 'will happen' we kept being told Of course very few believed it. Sounded more like the daft 'if you want it to happen it will' nonsense you get told as a kid than a board member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It's okay, Ulver. Let it go. Good times ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He has a billion dollars or so. That's pretty bottomless mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 he doesnt though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He has a billion dollars or so. That's pretty bottomless mate That's equivalent to six Bales on five year £300,000pw contracts. Then he'd be living in a cardboard box. It doesn't go that far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts