The Randy Lerner thread

[PussEKatt]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

So, he can't afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th and qualifying for europe every year.But he can afford the wages of a team finishing just above the drop zone every year ?

So where does that leave us :?: :?: :?:

Everything isn't as black and white as that though, is it?

"He cant afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th"

So how much does a team finishing 6th cost? There's no definitive answer on that, it's down to whatever manager is in place.

I'm sure if we had a similar squad to Everton or Newcastle we could afford the wages which they pay out. That's because they don't have players like Heskey on 65k a week doing feck all. We need to get rid of these players before we can start again. Will Randy put money back into the club once the squad has been stripped of it's high earners? Only Randy knows that.

That's it in a nutshell is'nt it ?

Moyes spent nothing at all last transfer window yet Everton are 7th.

McStupid spent millions and we are 15th ?

[irreverentad]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

So, he can't afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th and qualifying for europe every year.But he can afford the wages of a team finishing just above the drop zone every year ?

So where does that leave us :?: :?: :?:

Everything isn't as black and white as that though, is it?

"He cant afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th"

So how much does a team finishing 6th cost? There's no definitive answer on that, it's down to whatever manager is in place.

I'm sure if we had a similar squad to Everton or Newcastle we could afford the wages which they pay out. That's because they don't have players like Heskey on 65k a week doing feck all. We need to get rid of these players before we can start again. Will Randy put money back into the club once the squad has been stripped of it's high earners? Only Randy knows that.

That's it in a nutshell is'nt it ?

Moyes spent nothing at all last transfer window yet Everton are 7th.

McLeish spent millions and we are 15th ?

Jelavic, Peinaar, Gibson, Donovan?

[PussEKatt]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

So, he can't afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th and qualifying for europe every year.But he can afford the wages of a team finishing just above the drop zone every year ?

So where does that leave us :?: :?: :?:

Everything isn't as black and white as that though, is it?

"He cant afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th"

So how much does a team finishing 6th cost? There's no definitive answer on that, it's down to whatever manager is in place.

I'm sure if we had a similar squad to Everton or Newcastle we could afford the wages which they pay out. That's because they don't have players like Heskey on 65k a week doing feck all. We need to get rid of these players before we can start again. Will Randy put money back into the club once the squad has been stripped of it's high earners? Only Randy knows that.

That's it in a nutshell is'nt it ?

Moyes spent nothing at all last transfer window yet Everton are 7th.

McLeish spent millions and we are 15th ?

Jelavic, Peinaar, Gibson, Donovan?

In the January transfer window he spent $0

[irreverentad]

Sorry this isn't a thread about Everton, back on topic please TV

[pacbuddies]

Thought I was in the Randy Lerner thread but there is just a load of bollocks about some other teams and not our evasive owner!

[irreverentad]

Thought I was in the Randy Lerner thread but there is just a load of bollocks about some other teams and not our evasive owner!

Good stuff. Anything to add re Lerner?

[stanthemanisgod]

WHislt the Chelsea and Everton stuff was getting of topic the argument was made that our owner's incompetence have been highlighted by what has happened at other clubs, namely Chelsea and Everton. That said I dont agree with the points being made.

Personally I odnt think he's done that bad a job, just because things have slipped in the last 2 seasons we cant simply forget the good he did for the club whan he came in, when the majority of us were holding him up as the model example of a foreign owner.

As I argued before I genuinely believe that the spped at which we've tried to address the wage issue is to ensure we comply with the UEFA regs, not because he's lost his bottle, or wants out.

I would expect thatother clubs will also have to look at their income to wages ratio and when they do our 'fall from grace' wont look as bad as it currently does.

[Big_John_10]

Personally I odnt think he's done that bad a job,

I find this view incredible.

He bought the club after we just finished with 42 points and winning 10 games.

After 6 years and millions and millions of pounds worth of investment we are well on track to finishing worse that that.

If you took over a failing business, spent a fortune and 6 years down the line it was performing worse you wouldn't be seen as a good business man.

[stanthemanisgod]

It would depend if something came along and fundamentally flawed your business model, such as some new legislation.

His plan was to come in and attempt to buy a measure of success for the club and for the most part it was working, steady imporovement in points totals, cup finals and semi-finals, european football. we just failed (for a number of reasons) to clear the final hurdle.

The problem with that plan is if the money dries up then things go stale very quickly, as we have seen.

So the real question is has he stopped the money because he's decided he no longer wants to fund the dream or because in a season or 2 if we'd have carried on as we were we wouldn't be allowed to enter an european competition we'd qualified for.

If it's the former then you're entitiled to criticise his ownership, if it's the latter then it could be argued that he made the tough but responsible decision.

They way I see the situation is a bit like an F1 Grand Prix, we might be 15th in the race but we're the only car to have made it's pit stop, once the other's come in we'll move back up the pack.

[hippo]

I can't reveal my sources. But I have heard from a couple of people that Graham Taylor + David Platt will be joining villa in the summer. Mcleish remains as manager though.

[VillanWA]

It would depend if something came along and fundamentally flawed your business model, such as some new legislation.

Or Mon

[stanthemanisgod]

MoN was MoN, I dont buy into the theory that everything stems from him. Yes he made some duff signings but let's not forget the success we saw was still under his reign.

Even though we were spending money we weren't spending the kind of money to get the really good players and we weren't buying from a position of strength until towards the end of his reign.

I would argue with MoN still in charge and the same level of funding we'd still be challenging for the euro spots, maybe even doing better as we may have attracted better signings after a more prolonged period at the right end of the league.

For me it all comes down to the money, the signings, the sale of players, the appointment of managers has all been driven by the need to reduce expenditure. Whether you're more pro or anti Lerner depends on why the expenditure has been reduced so quickly.

[SikhInTrinity]

I can't reveal my sources. But I have heard from a couple of people that Graham Taylor + David Platt will be joining villa in the summer. Mcleish remains as manager though.

Bloody hell, Michael Boulding and one of the worst coaches around!

[VillanWA]

MoN was MoN, I dont buy into the theory that everything stems from him. Yes he made some duff signings but let's not forget the success we saw was still under his reign.

What success was that then. 3 6th place finishes, WoW.

If Mon would have stayed with the players he brought in we still financially would have been in a mess. So as managers go Mon set us up to fail with the wage structure he put in place. He was a disaster.

[coda]

I can't reveal my sources. But I have heard from a couple of people that Graham Taylor + David Platt will be joining villa in the summer. Mcleish remains as manager though.

Eh?

[Moorski]

Platt has no respect for Aston Villa

[stanthemanisgod]

MoN didn't put a wage structure in place. He did what any other manager in his position would have done, he signed the players he wanted, on the wages it took to get them with the approval of his board.

The wages were never an issue until UEFA decided to pander to the established big clubs who were getting worried by the City's, Malaga'sd and PSG's of the world. The only discontent I heard from the board was regarded highly paid players that were seemingly frozen out of the squad, such as NRC. We are not financially in a mess, we're losing money yes but that cannot come as a surprise to anybody at the club given the money we were spending, money that was freely offered up by the owner. We only owe money to our owner, so no real mess to speak of.

And yes 3 6th place finishes, a cup final, and an FA cup semi-final, are a relative success for a club that had been midtable at best for a long time. What last cup final before that was when 2000? last trophy 96? last UEFA cup place... I actually cant remember.

[VillanWA]

We are not financially in a mess, we're losing money yes but that cannot come as a surprise to anybody at the club given the money we were spending, money that was freely offered up by the owner. We only owe money to our owner, so no real mess

[jon_c]

I know he signed Boulding, but for how much? And in his time Taylor has made some of the greatest signings I've seen any manager make at Villa park. Platt, McGrath, Yorke etc..

[Pilchard]

Leonhardsen, Kinsella.....