The Randy Lerner thread

[Fuse]

In my opinion I would be more than happy to have Randy as our owner for many years to come but I think he needs to be more of a leader and share his vision for the club going forward. The longer he does not do this then the more alienated the fans become. I am not one fo those that is completey against the appointment of AM as I think he cna do a good job - if he is givne soem backing in the transfer windows over the enxt 12-18 months.

I am hoping that we are in a period of transition, that once we get rid of the deadowood and high earners next summer that we see Randy investing again but this tiem controlling the wage bill.

if we donlt see any of the above then Randy wants out and it will be just a matter of time before he sells up.

Wasn;t there talk that he had met Nicholas Padfield recently?

[Fuse]

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k.

Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

Where it this proof John? My view would be that our core support is nearer to 25K.

I also think that with a period of sustained success - 5-10 years then we could command crowds of 50-60K.

The fanbase is there I really believe but it to get big crowds you need trophies and star names.

[John_Lerwill]

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k.

Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

Where it this proof John? My view would be that our core support is nearer to 25K.

Proof? I have just completed 18 months of detailed research in the 1945-2010 period to find many facts for my new book of which this is one.

If you go back to the early 80s, 15k to 17k was the figure that was attending Villa Park, not long after the Saunders years.

I also think that with a period of sustained success - 5-10 years then we could command crowds of 50-60K.

The fanbase is there I really believe but it to get big crowds you need trophies and star names.

Exactly. But just playing decent football will help to keep the crowds happy as a starter.

[blandy]

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

[Fuse]

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k.

Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

Where it this proof John? My view would be that our core support is nearer to 25K.

Proof? I have just completed 18 months of detailed research in the 1945-2010 period to find many facts for my new book of which this is one.

If you go back to the early 80s, 15k to 17k was the figure that was attending Villa Park, not long after the Saunders years.

I also think that with a period of sustained success - 5-10 years then we could command crowds of 50-60K.

The fanbase is there I really believe but it to get big crowds you need trophies and star names.

Exactly. But just playing decent football will help to keep the crowds happy as a starter.

John, not wishing to down play the work you have done on this at all. I do think though that our core support is bigger than you suggest. I am sure if we got relegated to the Chamipnship that our corwds would not drop below 25k

[CI]

The £7.3m sale was for the serpentine site which is the plot where asda used to be years ago

Not sure who bought it mind, probably spenhill

[Fuse]

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

That is the crux of the problem for me and I think that the longer this situation continues then the more I believe Randy wants out. Let's face it if he is still in it for the long run and he is keepign abreast of the fans frustrations he can surely see the need to communicate the plans and vision going forward.

Otherwise we should be very worried as I don't see an viable alternative to Randy appearing any time soon...

[John_Lerwill]

John, not wishing to down play the work you have done on this at all. I do think though that our core support is bigger than you suggest. I am sure if we got relegated to the Chamipnship that our corwds would not drop below 25k

Fuse, I'm setting my stall based on some kind of fact.

When Villa went down in 1987, the figures did improve but simply because a good manager - Graham Taylor - was brought in. But the Saturday figures even then hovered between 19k and 25k at that point. The weekday attendances were down as far as 11k!!

What would happen now is what I guess you're really saying. Well, it depends. If there's not a manager that's appointed that gives rise to hope then I'd say your 25k would be very optimistic.

It rather depends on who is manager and if money is being made available.

The question was what is the core support. I'd say that 15k to 17k is still the figure I'd go for as the number of fans that would support their club through thick and thin. If there's a sign of some success, then 25k is possible.

That is my case, especially in the current economic climate, which I can't see improving in the next 2 or 3 years.

[Risso]

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

I'm not sure Pete, but I don't think it was that. The sale was of "property under construction" which makes me think it wasn't just a random piece of land. Did we have anything that was being built on that could realistically be valued at £7m? Bit of Bodymoor perhaps?

[Fuse]

We've already sold £7.3m worth of club land to set off against some of the loan notes, does anybody want to bet against this happening again in the future?

Is that the land Ellis was trying to sell - for a Tesco Supermarket, but then planning permission was refused? There were 2 sites, weren't there - the land the old Asda was on round the back of the leisure centre and some where the coach park is.

It's a weird one, really - Ellis bought up, with the Club's money, a few bits of land, a long time ago, just because, I guess, he thought it was a good price. But then it largely sat there, unloved and unused. Though to be fair a long time ago the club owned the Leisure centre, but sold it on, it wasn't a money spinner at all, particularly once the basketball faded and moved.

What's a football club doing buying up land anyway - if not to use for playing or training or facilities, what use is it? Shouldn't the Club's money be out there on the pitch running around, or be put into facilities for players, or fans etc?

It's a worry potentially if the Club is having to sell off assets to pay off loans that were intended to be paid back from normal income, I suppose. Unsustainable debt is not a good thing at any level. Alternatively, if it's a case of land there's no need for, but which is worth money being disposed off to provide income, which is then used to pay off debt instead of selling players, then maybe that's not so bad.

So the land thing's not the issue, just something that raises questions as to

what the plan is to keep the club running. But not knowing what the plan is has been a thing that we've been wanting to know for most of the past 3 decades, with a couple of brief spells of information being given, first by Ellis when he floated the club on the Stock Market and had to. and then at the start of Randy's time.

Now we're back to being in the dark, and wondering what's going on.

I'm not sure Pete, but I don't think it was that. The sale was of "property under construction" which makes me think it wasn't just a random piece of land. Did we have anything that was being built on that could realistically be valued at £7m? Bit of Bodymoor perhaps?

Didn't Mark Ansell announce we were building some houses and apartments near to the ground at one stage? I seem to remember it but can't recall hearing anything after - maybe that was the land we have sold.

[makouns_grin]

I think i saw Randy behind McCleish in the dug out last home game, all the Villa fans were chanting 'he's behind you'

[Denis_B]

Mark Ansell was involved with the group that purchased, for about £7m, the Serpentine and were planning on building a night club and stuff - nothing happened there then

[LancsVillan]

Is it just me but why should Villa announce our plans for future, no other club does it, what gives us the fans the right to 'demand' it?

Yes it would be nice but I know that it would nothing but appease some and simply stir others up.

1. We want a statement.

2. Villa make a statement.

3. Villans in 'oh I don't like that, I don't like this'.

4. We want a different statement.....

And round it goes.

[barry'sboots]

Mr L will arrive tomorrow in his shiny new aircraft.

Good to hear he can still afford one of lifes essentials.

Indeed. It's only like me owning a car to pursue my work.

Has he gone for the new Falcon800?

bargain at $50m

As long as he doesn't let wee Barry drive/fly he'll be okay. :winkold:

[Harry]

Is it just me but why should Villa announce our plans for future, no other club does it, what gives us the fans the right to 'demand' it?

Yes it would be nice but I know that it would nothing but appease some and simply stir others up.

1. We want a statement.

2. Villa make a statement.

3. Villans in 'oh I don't like that, I don't like this'.

4. We want a different statement.....

And round it goes.

I think you have nailed it there. My recollection is everytime the club makes a statement or sends a letter VT goes into meltdown with posters analysing the nuances of each phrase looking for hidden meanings or drawing conclusions that simply are not there. The simple truth is the club is damned if does and damned if it does not.

If the club were to make a statement the best one it could make would be to have a brief interview with Randy Lerner talking about his commitment to the club and his plans for development. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

Of course that pre supposes that he has both commitment and plans.

[Harry]

Oh and this talk of land sales is meaningless. If I had a company that owned a piece of land that was of no value to my company and I could sell it for a decent price I would. Last time I checked Villa were neither property developers or estate managers.

[makouns_grin]

Is it just me but why should Villa announce our plans for future, no other club does it, what gives us the fans the right to 'demand' it?

Yes it would be nice but I know that it would nothing but appease some and simply stir others up.

1. We want a statement.

2. Villa make a statement.

3. Villans in 'oh I don't like that, I don't like this'.

4. We want a different statement.....

And round it goes.

Boooo Hissssss

Bad board, tell us everything! If your not telling us everything just spend money, we dont care where it comes from or if it effects the future of the club just spend spend spend!

[stanthemanisgod]

I'm in this camp.

I think the club have been quite forthcoming and certainly more so than most. Randy told us expenditure was out of sync with income, and therefore wages would need to be reduced in order to comply with the UEFA financial fair play regs. Unless I've made this us then it's come from somewhere.

People dont like hearing that, especially when it relates to good players being sold and cheaper players being bought, so the communication from the club is rubbish.

[John_Lerwill]

I'm in this camp.

I think the club have been quite forthcoming and certainly more so than most. Randy told us expenditure was out of sync with income, and therefore wages would need to be reduced in order to comply with the UEFA financial fair play regs. Unless I've made this us then it's come from somewhere.

People dont like hearing that, especially when it relates to good players being sold and cheaper players being bought, so the communication from the club is rubbish.

I may well be wrong, but I don't think Randy has issued a statement quite of that kind. People have interpreted that is what the situation is, but I feel pretty sure RL has not specifically stated it.

If I'm wrong, pehaps someone will put me right with an actual quote.

Apart from which, though, he certainly hasn't issued a statement to say why his "... Bright Future" claim has been shoved into the archives.

[stanthemanisgod]

John,

I think the reason would be that Lerner still believes the club has a bright future, maybe not this season or the next but then thats the value of using the word future I guess. Both the words Bright and Future are open to interpretation, I might consider finishing 6th next season to be a bright future, you might consider it to be winning our next game 3-0, some might consider it to be league winners within 10 years, but who's to say which interpretation is correct?

Also as I've explained the Proud History: Bright Future tag was a marketing ploy, a commercial tag line, something to put on club merchandise to generate some additional sales. We liked it and I'm sure many of us have Villa products with the tag line on it indicating it worked.

Do you complain to Tesco that they tell you every little helps when you find a product slightly more expensive in their shop than a competitors? I would guess not because you don't take their advertising as a promise.