Manager Paul Lambert

[Richard]

What are you using as evidence to sugges this teams year is better than last? Results? Goals scored? Goals conceded? Goal difference? Average points per game?

Last years Norwich was better and Mcleish was able to take blues higher than lambert was able to take norwich.

I think Mcleish is absolutely shocking, but to laugh it off that lambert is clearly better is ridiculous and is based on very little.

sorry mate your first line has lost me. I was replying to your post really that this years villa looks a lot worse than last years. Have to say if Norwich last year was better than last years villa, then you have to give lambert credit for building it in the previous two years in lower divisions as well! Issue is it took him a few years to build it., not 6 months

[VILLAMARV]

Harewood? He's not even on that list ..

I knew it was a mistake to name him! I know, but he was one of the ones you missed off from the timeframe you seemed to be talking about

But to answer your question .. No. i don't want the ones on your list back. My point was that whether the players on that list were good, bad, indifferent, crap or whatever is irrelevant.. & obviously Heskey, & Beye were among the worst on that list as you well know, but the fact still remains that the squad was decimated & we were in desperate need of extra bodies in pre season. The squad was desperately threadbare when Lambert arrived & a budget of 20m was nowhere near enough to fill all those holes with quality players & that i actually thought he had done Ok in this regard.

 

So do you disagree with that?

Nope, totally agree with the rest of the original post too, just wasn't entirely sure on your point with the list of players we've let go. 

What i meant by "Myth" was that i have lost count of the posts on here claiming Randy had been generous by giving Lambert this 20m transfer kitty. It is often implied that this is in some way a further personal investment on Randy's part taking his personal investment to up to 250m etc when it is in fact just money generated by transfers..So the Myth i am getting at is the Myth that this was an additional personal investment of some sort by our owner. Randy has indeed invested a lot of money in the club of course he has, but i don't see how reinvesting money generated by player sales can be classed in the same light. 

 

Lambert was given 20m yes but he was also given a very threadbare squad which was desperately short in numbers. He inherited a squad that had survived by the skin of it's teeth last season & had been decimated still further since then with the losses of Collins, Cuellar & Petrov amongst others. Yes the quality of many of those sold/released was poor anyway but we did have some "Stars" & established Internationals in that lot too which have not been replaced... So yeah i'd prefer a number of those back here for sure although thats never going to happen obviously.

 

Ok so a myth that it came out of Randy's pockets, I haven't seen that. But you're 100% correct that Lambert's transfer kitty was just money we still had from previous sales (effectively the Downing money). 

 

Just for the record im pleased with the signings of Lowton, Vlaar, Benteke, I'd rather Bennett to Warnock, I think Westwood will become a regular and it's a shame KEA seems to be the one who isnt adapting to the pace of the premier league when he is probably the one of all his signings we couldn't afford to fail because we knew Stan was not gonna be available. 

 

It has cheered me up a bit remembering all the crap players that I dont have to watch any more though  

[P3te]

Depends if you think short term or long term though, surely? Villa have to sort this out - you can put off trouble season by season but we never looked like we were going anywhere for a while. The whole place needs a massive shake up and I think it is happening.

agreed, it needs to be sorted, but it all comes down to what the club will define as sorting it out. if it's relegation combined with getting rid of the big earners, then is that really any better than mcleish style struggling year in year out? it might be, or it might not, depending on how long it takes to get back to the premiership. 

 

for the record, i don't think lambert should get the bullet even if we go down because i think we need consistency. my point was simply that perhaps mcleish knew precisely how bad we were and figure out that the only way to keep us up was to draw our way to safety. again though, that's not a given, it's just a suggestion

[Big_John_10]

I'll give him credit, he did a great job at Norwich.

Was it a better achievement than finishing 9th in the prem or winning the league cup?

And if you don't disagree about this years team against last years why put the question mark? Do you think we're better this year?

[P3te]

 

 

 But you're 100% correct that Lambert's transfer kitty was just money we still had from previous sales (effectively the Downing money). 

 

the downing money, like the money from most of the rest of our sales, was spent on the massive deficit the club runs up paying wages every year

 

when we sell someone the money doesnt sit in a box waiting to be spent on players, it's used for the running of the club

Edited January 26, 2013 by P3te

[CI]

I believe in League momentum. The domestic cups and the Europa league really are red herrings nowadays . Most PL teams play weakened teams In the domestic cups anyway . Maybe the reserve teams get a bounce off the momentum?

[praisedmambo]

What are you using as evidence to sugges this teams year is better than last? Results? Goals scored? Goals conceded? Goal difference? Average points per game?

Last years Norwich was better and Mcleish was able to take blues higher than lambert was able to take norwich.

I think Mcleish is absolutely shocking, but to laugh it off that lambert is clearly better is ridiculous and is based on very little.

 

 

In the Norwich vs. Sha comparison, Lambert vs. McLeish, factor in to your thinking how Lambert took Norwich from League 1 to 12th in the prem in two seasons. And also factor in how you want your team to play football. I never want to see a team play football Mcleish's way ever again. Never. Norwich (a fairer assessment on Lambert's potential considering how long he was there and the few months he has had a Villa, inheriting a very ropy squad) play good attacking football and give it a go to get a win every game.

 

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics" I know which one of the two I would want managing Villa.

Edited January 26, 2013 by praisedmambo

[CI]

My two penneth

I scored McLeish 4 out of 10 for last season

So far I give lambert a 2

[P3te]

In the Norwich vs. Sha comparison, Lambert vs. McLeish, factor in to your thinking how Lambert took Norwich from League 1 to 12th in the prem in two seasons. And also factor in how you want your team to play football. I never want to see a team play football Mcleish's way ever again. Never. Norwich (a fairer assessment on Lambert's potential considering how long he was there and the few months he has had a Villa, inheriting a very ropy squad) play good attacking football and give it a go to get a win every game.

 

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics" I know which one of the two I would want managing Villa.

if the record books show that one kept us up while the other took us down how confident will you be of the last sentence?

[Big_John_10]

Apart from a few odd moments the football this year has been just as bad if not worse as last season.

if the record books show that one kept us up while the other took us down how confident will you be of the last sentence?

If we get relegated some will still claim the mans a managerial genius.

It's absolutely ridiculous how a man performing so bad can be so praised.

[Richard]

I'll give him credit, he did a great job at Norwich.

Was it a better achievement than finishing 9th in the prem or winning the league cup?

And if you don't disagree about this years team against last years why put the question mark? Do you think we're better this year?

it is still up for debate for me as the season isn't over. Ask me again after May!

[P3te]

If we get relegated some will still claim the mans a managerial genius.

It's absolutely ridiculous how a man performing so bad can be so praised.

 

he's certainly not shown any signs of genius but even if we're relegated i'd like to see him given the chance to stay in charge til christmas

[VillaGoMarching]

But if we hound Lambert out of the club, who on earth will want the job, knowing that there's very little money to play with and with all probability an even bigger group of players not wanted by the next manager. Players with little to no sale value, and wages that mean, they won't actively look to move on.

[samjp26]

Wonder if Arry' and QPR will get slated as much as Lambert and us tomorrow morning by the press - on paper QPR clearly have a much stronger squad than we do, a shit load more money, and they're lower than us in the league and losing 4-0 to MK Dons. 

[Big_John_10]

But if we hound Lambert out of the club, who on earth will want the job, knowing that there's very little money to play with and with all probability an even bigger group of players not wanted by the next manager. Players with little to no sale value, and wages that mean, they won't actively look to move on.

Lerner has made this position a shit job to have but I just think that's a weak argument for sticking with Lambert

[praisedmambo]

if the record books show that one kept us up while the other took us down how confident will you be of the last sentence?

Unfortunately yes. The madness at this club has to stop and we need stability. Sacking another manager - who can we get in? I like Lambert's signings, to be honest, and I think the main problem has been the players that were already here. They're still here and a new manager will have the same problems Lambert has.

 

 If we go down, I stand by everything I have ever said, I'd still have Lambert as the manager.

 

Clearly, it's not him I blame for the way we are. He has proven himself at Norwich - I'd swap our position for theirs right now. Norwich are a club who have been built up with sustainability and good finances in mind. Who did that? Lambert, whilst playing good football we'd all be happy to watch. We, Villa, are the total opposite. Over the last few years we have thrown money around trying to fix problems, sacking manager after manager, buying the wrong players - that is the whole reason we are in the mess. That is the madness I want to stop. If we have to take a big step back to go forwards, so be it. But I obviously hope that doesn't happen. Personally I think if we get some confidence back we might be able to find some form and be ok. 

Edited January 26, 2013 by praisedmambo

[Big_John_10]

I think the main problem has been the players that were already here

He's signed 3 defenders and we have the worst defence in the league.

He's contributions to this squad have added to the issues he inherited.

[VillaGoMarching]

Wonder if Arry' and QPR will get slated as much as Lambert and us tomorrow morning by the press - on paper QPR clearly have a much stronger squad than we do, a shit load more money, and they're lower than us in the league and losing 4-0 to MK Dons.

Of course not, much like MON, he's a media darling. Harry will make some affable comment about his players being shite and the media will eat it up.

[Big_John_10]

he's certainly not shown any signs of genius but even if we're relegated i'd like to see him given the chance to stay in charge til christmas

If we go down it means this horrendous run has continued all the way to the end of the season.

I don't think we can risk allowing it to continue into the following season.

I would also hate this **** being rewarded with the opportunity to continue to manage us.

[markavfc40]

Comparing McLeish and Lambert is like comparing chalk and cheese.

 

They have totally different philosophies in terms of how they approach games. McLeish went into the vast majority of games protecting the point you start with. Lamberts approach is to go for the 3 points regardless of opposition.

 

I actually think given the standard of players we have a more cautious approach was needed this season. We also needed to build from a solid spine. Two good solid centre backs, too strong centre midfielders and a focal point up top. We got up top right but the rest is sadly lacking. You get the spine right and you can get away with being weaker in other areas.

 

This has been Lamberts biggest **** up. He didn't prioritise the crucial positions when he bought players in over the summer. We needed another centre back far more than we needed a left back. We needed a couple of strong either defensive or box to box midfielders far more than we needed KEA ,another right back and forward in Bowery.

 

I still don't think its too late to put things right. Two or three signings in the crucial areas could still turn our season around. I don't think Lerner will stump up though and I am starting to question whether Lambert would make the right signings if he had the money.